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Tips on drilling straight reel seat arbors?
Posted by: Al Jones (---.biz.spectrum.com)
Date: July 23, 2022 08:46AM

Does anyone have any tips on straight reel seat arbors? I can't ever keep them centered and it doesn't help starting with arbors that are crooked. I just went through 4 flex coat arbors that were crooked and couldn't get them centered up. I have the pilot bits I can try but doesn't matter if its off to start?
Thanks
Al



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/23/2022 08:47AM by Al Jones.

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Re: Tips on drilling straight reel seat arbors?
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: July 23, 2022 09:48AM

I have never seen an off center arbor as received from the manufacturer. So they are not "off to start." At least in my experience.

I have not tried the pilot bits, but all reports I've seen have been positive.

Mine don't end up perfect, but close enough. I use reamers progressing from small to larger, checking very often to see if I'm maintaining concentricity. When I detect an eccentricity I "lean" the reamer to re-center the hole.

One thing that can help is to cut the arbors into segments, like approximately one inch segments, fitting one to one end of the seat and the other to the other end. It's easier to maintain concentricity in a short arbor than it is in a long one.

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Re: Tips on drilling straight reel seat arbors?
Posted by: John DeMartini (---.inf6.spectrum.com)
Date: July 23, 2022 10:17AM

The trick is to start with a arbor that has a larger diameter than the reel seat.

Drill out the arbor to a hole size close to the rod blanks minimum diameter and mount the arbor on the mandrel.

Chuck the mandrel to a lathe, drill press, or drill, now turn down the OD of the arbor to fit the reel seat, at this point the bore and the OD of the arbor should be concentric..

Use a tapered reamer or scrap rod blank section with grit or emery attached and VERY CAREFULLY in small increments ream (by hand) the bore of the arbor to fit the blank.

This is a very slow operation and requires a lot of patience.

Have fun

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Re: Tips on drilling straight reel seat arbors?
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: July 23, 2022 10:32AM

Here are two good methods one with and one without using a lathe. Go in to the video about 1 minute for both types.

[www.youtube.com]

.........

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Re: Tips on drilling straight reel seat arbors?
Posted by: Al Jones (---.biz.spectrum.com)
Date: July 23, 2022 12:02PM

This batch of 4 was clearly off so maybe I shouldn't even have tried in the first place. But helpful info thank you. Makes me want a lathe for sure.

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Re: Tips on drilling straight reel seat arbors?
Posted by: Herb Ladenheim (62.182.98.---)
Date: July 23, 2022 12:15PM

Al,
Hi.
Herb here

The BEST way to keep the arbor concentric to the blank is to do the following:

First - DO NOT glue the arbor into the seat before reaming.

Assuming the arbor is approximately the length of the seat - cut the arbor into 4 equal pieces.
It is much more accurate to ream a short 1" arbor than a 4" rbor.

Ream each piece until it fits snug on the blank where you intend to epoxy it.
If the arbor is shorter than the seat - leave spaces between the pieces.

Epoxy the pieces on the blank

After cured - wrap the arbor with size "C" thread - if seat is not snug - wrap the thread back over itself.
If still not snug - use dacron fly line backing - back and forth if needed.

Apply epoxy to the seat/thread AND the inside of the seat. Push the seat onto the arbor while the blank is rotating. I use my dryer motor to do that.

Make sure that you pay attention to logo for centering.

Call me if questions.
Herb
CTS

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Re: Tips on drilling straight reel seat arbors?
Posted by: Tim Scott (---)
Date: July 23, 2022 12:17PM

I just had some poly casting arbors that were way off. Careful use of the reamer by hand to recenter and then use of sleeve to verify alignment with initial glue up.
In general, I go up slowly increasing drillbit size, usually by 32 or 64th and when it is close to minor diameter, I switch to the reamer. Ymmv.

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Re: Tips on drilling straight reel seat arbors?
Posted by: Al Jones (---.biz.spectrum.com)
Date: July 23, 2022 01:12PM

Herb and Tim,

Thank you for the help. I'll try that!
To clarify, in the past I've definitely driven plenty off center in the past that started concentric. A few times I've been able to recenter them but its tough.

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Re: Tips on drilling straight reel seat arbors?
Posted by: Norman Miller (---)
Date: July 23, 2022 01:29PM

Unlike Herb, I glue my arbors into to reel seat before reaming. I’ve have fewer problems doing it this way then reaming the arbor itself before installing. For example, with larger diameter blanks the arbor wall becomes very thin and becomes very prone to splitting. It’s a personal choice how you want to do it. However, in either case I’ve found that when not using a lathe or drill press, it is necessary to have whatever you are reaming to also be turning while you ream or drill. This means if using a cordless drill let the object slip in you hand while reaming or drilling. If reaming by hand, turn both the reamer/drill and the object at the same time. By keeping the object turning you are constantly adjusting the position of the object, and this helps to keep the hole concentric. If you grip the object firmly and not let it turn while reaming you are almost guaranteed to have an off center hole. Just take you time and don’t force things.
Norm

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Re: Tips on drilling straight reel seat arbors?
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: July 23, 2022 03:51PM

John Demartini: Very clever! That has to work well because any errors in concentricity made making the hole will be negated by using the hole for the axis of the final outer diameter.

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Re: Tips on drilling straight reel seat arbors?
Posted by: roger wilson (---)
Date: July 23, 2022 07:13PM

Al,
I use two items that have not been mentioned.

For all of my reaming work, I use circular files - to which I have ground down the handle end to give me a symmetric constanT diameter that I chuck into a drill.
On each of these files I have sharpened the point so that I can start with a pretty small center hole in the arbor and established the first hole in the arbor.

[www.rodbuilding.org]

---
Cloth gloves.
I buy brown jersey gloves and white knitted gloves by the dozen.

When doing any sort of reaming, I always have a glove on the hand of the one holding the arbor. Then, as a drill/ream - I use the slippery nature of the cloth jersey glove to let the arbor slip slowly, as I do the reaming.

I first ream from one side and then from the other.

Effectively you are using a lathe principal by the use of the cloth gloves that allow me to let the arbor slip slowly - and rotate slowly as I ream with the tapered file/s - the continuous slow rotation of the arbor in my gloved hand essentially - insure that the hole in the arbor remains centered.

Of course if you have a lathe; simply chuck the arbor into the head stock chuck. Then, use various sized drill bits and or reamers mounted in the lathe tail stock to drill and or ream the arbor to required center hole size and tapered.

For example:
Here is a wood grip being drilled for use on an ice rod - by spinning the grip - after it has been shaped, by a drill bit that is chucked into the tail stock chuck. Note that the drill bit remains stationary, but the wood grip spins as the head stock chuck rotates.

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Re: Tips on drilling straight reel seat arbors?
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: July 23, 2022 09:26PM

Letting it spin in the gloved hand helps, but is not a real solution, IMHO.

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Re: Tips on drilling straight reel seat arbors?
Posted by: Mark Talmo (---)
Date: July 24, 2022 01:08AM

Al,
When all has been said and done, and all the videos watched, THE ONLY WAY TO BORE A TRULY CONCENTRIC HOLE IN A FOAM ARBOR is held in a collet chucked in a proper lathe; PERIOD, NO ANDS-IFS-OR BUTS FROM ANY ANGLE!!! Even a 3-jaw chuck will distort the foam arbor, even if somewhat concentrically. As soon as a manual procedure is introduced such as a hand reamer or cordless drill, it is virtually IMPOSSIBLE to keep the bore concentric no matter what the claims might be. But then, how precisely concentric do you require it to be? Within .005in, .050in? I dare anyone to detect a seat which is .005in out; and most people could care less if it were even .050in (almost 1/16in) out. Obviously, the more concentric all the pieces are = the easier to assemble. I certainly strive for perfection but also realize that there are acceptable limits. Go slowly and if you notice being off a tad, adjust and continue.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

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Re: Tips on drilling straight reel seat arbors?
Posted by: Ronald Atchley (96.125.236.---)
Date: July 24, 2022 07:43AM

Mark Talmo said :
When all has been said and done, and all the videos watched, THE ONLY WAY TO BORE A TRULY CONCENTRIC HOLE IN A FOAM ARBOR is held in a collet chucked in a proper lathe; PERIOD, NO ANDS-IFS-OR BUTS FROM ANY ANGLE!!!

Woke up this morning and read this . I do not doubt for a moment that this is true but , for a first time builder who can not justify the expense of lathe , I admit this is very discouraging . What's the old saying about "if something is worth doing it's worth doing right" ? If this is not possible ...............

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Re: Tips on drilling straight reel seat arbors?
Posted by: Al Jones (---.biz.spectrum.com)
Date: July 24, 2022 07:56AM

This has been very helpful thank you. I wish I had another use for a lathe right now but since I don't make cork grips at this time I can't really justify it.

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Re: Tips on drilling straight reel seat arbors?
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: July 24, 2022 08:51AM

Ronald Atchley Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mark Talmo said :
> When all has been said and done, and all the
> videos watched, THE ONLY WAY TO BORE A TRULY
> CONCENTRIC HOLE IN A FOAM ARBOR is held in a
> collet chucked in a proper lathe; PERIOD, NO
> ANDS-IFS-OR BUTS FROM ANY ANGLE!!!
>
> Woke up this morning and read this . I do not
> doubt for a moment that this is true but , for a
> first time builder who can not justify the expense
> of lathe , I admit this is very discouraging .
> What's the old saying about "if something is worth
> doing it's worth doing right" ? If this is not
> possible ...............


Use the second method shown in this video. No lathe necessary. [www.youtube.com]

........

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Re: Tips on drilling straight reel seat arbors?
Posted by: Ronald Atchley (96.125.236.---)
Date: July 24, 2022 09:40AM

Thank you Mr. Kirkman for the link . I will definitely use the second method with my short arbors . Still leaves me concerned about my short Fuji VSS cork grip and fighting butt . I've read excellent suggestions from members here on methods for the cork and will try them . Thanks you again .

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Re: Tips on drilling straight reel seat arbors?
Posted by: Norman Miller (---.lightspeed.jcsnms.sbcglobal.net)
Date: July 24, 2022 11:30AM

If you are using a VSS 16 reel seat, I would recommend gluing the arbors in the reel seat before installing. The VSS 16 seat has two different IDs, the rear half ID is13 mm and the front half ID is 15 mm. Also the cutout contour of the VSS grips make it more difficult to glue the arbors, grip and reel seat together at the same time. I normally glue the arbors into the seat and when cured ream both the seat and grip to dry fit the blank. I then remove them and glue them together as a unit. I find doing it this way makes it easier to get a good glue joint and have the edges of the grip and seat match perfectly. It also makes clean up easier. When cured I install the reel seat and grip together as a unit. If needed you can slightly ream to get a good fit. I ream all the components as I described above. I have used a lot of VSS and IPS reel seats over the years with good success. I have a rod lathe but don’t find it necessary for simple reaming chores. I admit I have a lot of experience reaming and thus have gotten pretty good at it. There are others ways of doing it, but this is how I do it.
Norm

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Re: Tips on drilling straight reel seat arbors?
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---.res.spectrum.com)
Date: July 24, 2022 12:04PM

There is a never-ending supply of butt sections of broken rods, while sandpaper and contact cement is cheap. I find a section of a broken rod about one quarter inch thinner than butt diameter of the rod I'm building. I cut 1/2" wide strips from a piece of #80 grit sandpaper and coat the broken rod blank and back of the sandpaper strips with contact cement and let it dry. Then I wind and press the back of the glued sandpaper strips against the glued broken rod section in an open spiral, leaving an inch or two between wraps. The taper of the broken blank will seldom differ much from the taper of the new blank, but you can check before you start. Simply rotate your home-made reamer a few times up the hole in your grip, sanding a larger hole. Then slide the arbor (or grip) down your new rod blank until you find a snug fit where you want it to be. You can be as precise as you wish with this system - or you can purcha$e a whiz-bang grip reaming machine.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/24/2022 12:07PM by Phil Ewanicki.

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Re: Tips on drilling straight reel seat arbors?
Posted by: John DeMartini (---.inf6.spectrum.com)
Date: July 24, 2022 02:44PM

Phil Ewanicki- you nailed it. That works and is easy to do. Thanks for passing that on.

John

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