John DeMartini Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Michael Danek Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Keep in mind that a faster recovering rod will
> > recover faster than a slower recovering rod
> given
> > the same weight of water on them.
> >
> I agree 100%, but a individual rod covered with
> water ( a temporary change in weight/mass)
> regardless of power/action will respond/recover at
> a different rate than when dry and I/we for each
> cast sub-consciously compensates for it. .
>
> The practical side of me places guide weight
> reduction low on my list of priorities. To those
> who prioritize reducing guide weight so as to
> preserve as much of a blank's action as possible,
> I apologize for my skepticism.
>
> John

I don't buy that guide weight thing either, John.

I always thought it was good luck to have a dragon fly land on your rod while fishing.
Though the extra weight was bound to diminish the sensitivity, the added luck was always welcome.

Ahh the dreaded dragon fly , always a sensitivity killer .

Regarding: "I apologize for my skepticism."

No apology necessary, everyone is entitled to an opinion.

A heavier guide train will slow down the recovery rate of a rod - AFTER THE CAST HAS BEEN RELEASED. I doubt that even a HUGE difference in the weight of a rod's guide train - say an eighth of an ounce, will shorten the cast by more than two inches, advertising and guesswork notwithstanding. You can't push a rope and you can't push a fishing line - or what's on the end of it.

I think that on graphite rods you can easily feel a difference in guide weights but I build on glass blanks which are heavier and can,t notice a difference between #4 and #5 guides.

Ben, You are right.

Phil, as usual, you are wrong. A huge difference in the weight of rod's guide train will hugely affect its recovery speed. If you would stop doubting and guessing and do the TNF testing you would see for yourself that guide weights have a great deal to do with rod recovery speed. But I really don't expect that to happen. Send me an email, I'll send you the process.

It may well be that a huge difference in the weight of a guide train will hugely affect a rod's recovery speed. I never checked, being more interested in a rod's casting distance than its recovery time. Would the huge difference in recovery speed you refer to be expressed in miles per hour or feet per second, and where can I find a chart of various blanks and their recovery rates?

Phil,
You are beyond reasonable thinking. In fact, you are nothing but a POT-STIRRER. Allow me to suggest that you discover a different rod building site which caters to the meadow-muffin style that you inflict upon the rest of us here on RB.O; you will find commordertry and comfort with like-minded individuals while sparring us on this site with the agony of having to deal with you. Sounds like a win-win to me!!!

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

I think graphite rods are getting to quick..I fish for bass often in pretty cold water with spinner baits,.often I feel them just pecking at the blade..they are slowed down so much by the water temperature that they are not strong enough to really suck it in..then I change over to my light power glass rod which is slow enough to let them take the lure without the rod pulling it away so quickly and start catching some usually pretty nice bass.

It may be that rods with a quick recovery rate cast farther and/or transmit sensations of touch better than slower rods. I don't know, but I would like to see some data on this subject. I don't understand why the recovery time of a rod AFTER the cast is released is important. It doesn't seem like the "recovery time" of a cast has anything to do with the distance or accuracy of that cast. If a rod's recovery rate does indeed have a measurable influence on a rod's casting distance or accuracy I would like to see the data, so I can build a better rod! Once again, where can I find a list of the recovery times of rod blanks, especially fly rod blanks? I don't want to waste my time and money on blanks with poor recovery times.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/29/2022 08:54AM by Phil Ewanicki.

I build and fish fiberglass rods which are considered low recovery..they are only five feet long and all cast 1/8oz.nlures sixty feet or more with ease,.way more fishing distance than I like or need. I don,t pay attention to rod recovery or if I have too many guides etc. I don,t care about rod sensetivity because I. get sensetivity from the line not the rod and glass is a much better fish fighting matdrial than graphite, a smoother ride..lol.Yo Talmo, did I miss anything?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/29/2022 10:19AM by ben belote.

Phil, if you keep waiting for the data you,ll never get anything done..I,m eighty and just do not have the time to wait..really, does anybody?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/29/2022 11:47AM by ben belote.

Ben,
You and I are indeed in the minority with preferring FG over CF (freshwater) rods. From a technical aspect, CF is superior to FG. While the weight of the actual fibers of CF and FG (Aramid as well) are quite similar, CF is considerably stiffer (higher modulus of elasticity) and thus, less material is required = less weight of the finished composite structure. Its stiffness also equates to better transmission of vibration (sensitivity) and oscillation recovery. It should seem obvious to anyone that the longer the tip of the rod continues to oscillate after a cast = the more friction the tip top induces on the line passing passing through as well as creating waves in the line (the shortest distance between two points is a straight line) in addition to air resistance = reduced casting distance. Maybe it is not as much of an issue with fly fishing. So, CF truly is the most sophisticated material, at least from a technical point of view; I will not dispute that fact. I own and still fish CF rods, but none of them are my go-to choice anymore.
However, from a practical (admittedly subjective and personal) point of view, I simply prefer and enjoy the Fish-Fighting-Fun-Factor of FG. Possibly, the only technical attribute that FG has over CF is its toughness which is why ALL of my offshore rods are FG.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

Agree Mark..when I hook a bass on my glass rod I,m confident he,s mine..I never feel that way with graphite rods,.I,m sure you,ve watched the pros on TV, as soon as they hook a fish they start cranking like crazy before he jumps off.. and he probably will..lol.

C'mon lol . Ben, you make it sound like all CF rods are as stiff as broomstick handles . CF rods can be had in all actions with all types of different flexibility profiles and power ratings which are perfectly suitable for landing fish without losing them and having them jump off at the last minute.

Chris, your right but why pay the higher price of carbon when you can get glass for a lot less? Sure carbon is lighter but it will never have the slow recovery rate of glass because it,s too light too responsive.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/29/2022 09:28PM by ben belote.

ben belote Wrote:
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> Chris, your right but why pay the higher price of
> carbon when you can get glass for a lot less?



I'm just glad we have choices and whether a persons preference is CF or FG both can be had for reasonable prices these days.
Hope you're doing well , I love your sense of humor.

Me too..we,re just talking fishing and that,s fun.

I have found that the GENERAL consensus of many veterans within this site, consider FG rods to be “sloppy” compared to CF rods. I am certainly not qualified to dispute. But the Fish-Fighting-Fun-Factor that FG rods affords me is undeniably real and profound. FG may not be for everyone or for every circumstance , but it certainly is for me!!! While it is unlikely that FG rods will come back and displace CF rods, the keen rod builder will consider the attributes / limitations of both!!!

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.