I had a baitcaster rod come back that was built with a Fuji SK split reel seat. The rod was about 2 years old and this had recently happened. The thread barrel part had slipped up toward the tip by about a 1/16". The WCS winding check on the inner part of the split at the barrel end, stayed in place and did not move but on the other end at the front, the small aluminum decorative winding check moved with the barrel. I use paste epoxy and am very thorough to make sure there is plenty in the center and at each end to insure no water intrusion. This includes attaching the winding checks, it is excessive. I even put a wrap in front of the barrel and trim wrap behind it between the split and even coating the winding checks with wrapping epoxy. I use anodized aluminum winding checks and always coat them to prevent the chance of corrosion. The barrel is not loose at all and the winding checks are securely in place, it just slipped up the 1/16". What the heck did this? There is a little evidence of abuse because a KT 4 guide at the tip was missing (I use a Forhan locking wrap) but no apparent damage to the blank. So what do you think caused the barrel to slip up?

What kind of arbor did you use for the threaded barrel? I found out many years ago that when a split reel seat hood is overly tightened down on the reel foot, it generates forces which tend to push the threaded barrel forward. This forward pushing force may loosen the adhesive bond between the masking tape and the blank. or break the epoxy bond between the masking tape surface and the threaded barrel. Roughing up the threaded barrel and using a polyurethane foam arbor or a dry wall tape arbor helps to prevent this problem. I’ve had masking tape arbors fail but never had a failure with either a foam or dry wall tape arbor. In addition, place the threaded barrel a little closer to the fixed rear hood. This gives the reel foot a little more support, which in turn helps alleviate this sliding problem. A foregrip will also help to prevent this problem.
Norm

Norman Miller Wrote:
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> What kind of arbor did you use for the threaded
> barrel? I found out many years ago that when a
> split reel seat hood is overly tightened down on
> the reel foot, it generates forces which tend to
> push the threaded barrel forward. This forward
> pushing force may loosen the adhesive bond between
> the masking tape and the blank. or break the epoxy
> bond between the masking tape surface and the
> threaded barrel. Roughing up the threaded barrel
> and using a polyurethane foam arbor or a dry wall
> tape arbor helps to prevent this problem. I’ve
> had masking tape arbors fail but never had a
> failure with either a foam or dry wall tape arbor.
> In addition, place the threaded barrel a little
> closer to the fixed rear hood. This gives the reel
> foot a little more support, which in turn helps
> alleviate this sliding problem. A foregrip will
> also help to prevent this problem.
> Norm

I never use masking tape Norm. They were the grey carbon foam arbors that come with the Fuji split reel seat. I have built a lot of these with this particular seat and no foregrip. I have never seen this, the barrel has moved and is not loose. All I can come it with is it has been pretty hot here in Texas.

Lance,
I think that the clue is in the missing guide.

My guess is that the rod was in a rod locker.

Then, someone went to remove the rod, but the reel was jammed some how into the rod locker.

I would guess that someone simply wrenched on the rod, until the rod was removed from the locker.

As a result, I would guess that there was internal slippage on the construction of the reel seat, and you have what you found on the rod.

Also, Norms comment about over tightening the reel into the reel seat, may have caused the front of the reel seat to slip due to too much pressure being applied to the reel seat by the compression force of the over tightened threaded nut.

Another possibility is that there was a manufacturing defect in the reel seat itself that helped expedite this issue.

But, my vote is for non tender handling of the rod by someone.

Take care

Possible contamination on the blank prior to gluing?

I'd go with the heat in combination with a tightened down reel seat. Maybe it's just me, but I can't see the scenario that Roger spelled out being in play at all. I've had rods and reels get tangled up in an over crowded rod locker before. But never anything like that. That would be an extreme occurrence.

One thing I have noticed of late, at least with the newer Shimano bait cast reels, is that the reel foot is a different shape. I have found I have to tighten the reel seat down a lot more with the newer reels in to keep the reel firmly seated. I have used Alps MVT reel seats on all but three of the bait casting rods I have built, and initially I thought it may be a problem specific to the MVT seat. But I have the same problem when I move one of my newer reels to rods with a standard Pac Bay reel seat, or their Minima reel seat, as well as a Fuji TCSM reel seat.

When I say newer Shimano casting reels, I have the problem with Curado K, Curado K MGL, and SLX MGL reels that I have purchased in the last 4 years or so. Now I will say that I have a couple of old Shimano reels that I have to put a little bit of aluminum tape over the tip of the front leg of the reel foot in order for them to tighten securely in a few of my rods.

I am thinking he left them in is boat locker with the boat being exposed to full sunlight and 100 degree days we have been having, and the reel still on the rod. I think it slid up when it got hot to a point the pressure was relieved enough or the thread wraps stopped it. I think that it cooled down and that is why it is not loose. I may start using an epoxy that can take higher temperatures to mount reel seats. Now how can I fix the seat and move it back into place? Any suggestions?

Lance,
Is there any downside to leaving the reel seat like it is?

I think if 100F+ for a few days causes a reel seat to move on its own, a different glue might be called for. I'm sure many boats are exposed to these conditions.

Enough with the iffy-wiffy replies!!! If the seat is “moving”, then either the epoxy was not mixed properly, did not fill the joint properly, the surfaces were not prepared properly, or there was a contamination issue. From this end, none of us can determine which is the culprit.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

I'm just curious? When someone asks a question on how to remove a reel seat or replace a broken guide, what is the number one suggestion given by the members of this site? Would it be to use heat to see if they can get it to soften the epoxy to make removal easier?

I'm not saying that the things that Mark laid out above aren't possibilities, or even the culprits. They very well may be. Butt heat most certainly could be a major contributing factor in this case.

This wasn't just the thread barrel that moved. A winding check that was coated with wrap epoxy moved as well. And we're not talking about a newbie to rod building either.

Mark Talmo Wrote:
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> Enough with the iffy-wiffy replies!!! If the seat
> is “moving”, then either the epoxy was not
> mixed properly, did not fill the joint properly,
> the surfaces were not prepared properly, or there
> was a contamination issue. From this end, none of
> us can determine which is the culprit.

The barrel is not loose, it is in place very firmly it just moved up about 1/16th of inch, this rod is about two years old and this happened just recently. The blank surface is sanded with 120 grit and cleaned up with DA or acetone prior to gluing up and a sample of the epoxy from the batch used is kept to insure the proper set. If not it would of been removed and done over. Really don't care at this point what caused it but would like to know how you would fix it. I have some ideas but would like to hear others. Should I try to heat it up and just move it back?

Lance - So as I understand it now, the WCS winding check at the rear of the threaded barrel is now 1/16” behind the barrel, leaving a gap. If this is the case, can you move the winding check forward until it’s flush with the back of the threaded barrel? This is the easiest fix. If the winding check refuses to move, then cut the winding check off and make a new one employing an epoxy ramp. Basically use a paste epoxy which is colored with a black pigment. The thickened colored paste epoxy can easily be formed to seal the back end of the barrel. You can use a gloved finger moistened with DNA to give a nice smooth appearance to the epoxy ramp.
Is it possible that the barrel never moved, but rather the WCS winding check just popped out of the barrel due to either heat and/or stress forces caused by removing and replacing the reel?
Norm

The only thing perplexing is why anyone would use a split seat..lol..

I hate to ask the obvious...
But is it possible that the seat moved when you made it two years ago?

I am not a fan of the split reel seat, there are far better options if the user wants to feel the blank. Also I think the reel seat foot sticking up in the air over the seat looks pretty stupid, my opinion on that though. There are a few customers of mine that love them and request their rods built that way. One suggestion that I tell them is that with the very limited of amount of contact the barrel has with the rod blank it to put a foregrip in front of the barrel. I've never had any come loose, and do use the polystyrene arbors in a one piece setup unlike the Fiji short ones.

For baitcasters, they work very well and seem to be comfortable enough. This is the lightest reel seat option that you can use. For spinning reels, they are uncomfortable, they are light but when casting lures all day you wind up with carpal tunnel syndrome at the end of the day. The type of rod I use these on are baitcasters that are light to medium power and fast or xfast action for casting 1/16 to 1 oz lures or whatever a Top Dog plug weighs. The finished rods weigh from 2.6 to 3.2 oz total weight and do not have a foregrip. I have made dozens of rods like this and this is the first one to have a problem like that.

Chris C, No this just recently happened from a rod that has been heavily fished for at least 2 years prior. I fish and work with the guy I made it for. He also builds a few rods.

Norman, that sounds like a very viable option with the least amount of deconstruction. Thank You. I was also thinking about just filling the gap with thread till it is flush to the top surface.

Ben, Explanation above. Made a fly rod with a split reel seat, don't think I will do that again. It looks strange, but has been a great rod. Seemed like nothing wanted to go together to make it work.

I believe this problem was something Rich Forhan and others contended with back when they first skeletonized Fuji ECSM reel seats, I think Rich suggested leaving the strap under the reel intact to stop this, adapt the seat to look more like the seat Castaway used and the new carbon Edge Rods reel trigger seats.

LAnce, I,m not a weight fanatic..I think it,s carried too far..it is done to improve rod sensetivity but the rod is not the best source of sensetitity, the line is especially braided line so much so that I have gone back to using glass rods..to me glass is a better fish fighting material and I still get more than enough sensetivity from the line.

ben belote Wrote:
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> LAnce, I,m not a weight fanatic..I think it,s
> carried too far..it is done to improve rod
> sensetivity but the rod is not the best source of
> sensetitity, the line is especially braided line
> so much so that I have gone back to using glass
> rods..to me glass is a better fish fighting
> material and I still get more than enough
> sensetivity from the line.

I believe braid and glass are made for each other. I think the lightness of a rod and the performance are kinda of a competition around here on the Gulf with rod makers. I just jump into the fray, once you get it down to 3 oz you really can't tell the difference from a 2.5 oz rod. I have made some 9' 4pc 3wt rods that come into at 3.2 oz. Those are really fun to cast. I am not really a fanatic about it, but I don't go out of my way to add weight.