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Current Page: 6 of 8
Re: Another ERN Question
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---.inf6.spectrum.com)
Date: July 28, 2022 01:44PM

Proclaiming a rod has "power" shows the triumph of advertising over common sense. Stating a rod has "power" is the fruit of endless marketing campaigns. Physical power is the product of force times distance. The only power any fish pole has is produced by the caster, not the pole - in precisely the same way that all the power in a shovel is provided by the shoveler. Bending a rod blank does not store energy and then release it in a cast. When you cast you release your line BEFORE your rod begins to straighten. A fish pole and a fish line can only pull a lure or sinker, not push it. As for "power" being the amount of resistance of a blank to deflection - isn't this identical to the "weight" of a rod? If not, why not?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/01/2022 12:50PM by Phil Ewanicki.

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Re: Another ERN Question
Posted by: Aaron Petersen (12.144.64.---)
Date: July 28, 2022 01:51PM

I wonder if the line and/or lure is ever pulled during a cast? I wonder what variables would effect the energy exerted in this theoretical pull?

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Re: Another ERN Question
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: July 28, 2022 03:49PM

Phil,

You really just don't understand what is meant by rod "power." Think "stiffness" and you'll be on the right track and perhaps be able to clear some of your confusion regarding the term as it applies to fishing rods. The same term often has different meanings depending upon the particular subject and context in which it is being used.

............

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Re: Another ERN Question
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: July 28, 2022 04:15PM

Tom, I went over the definition of fishing rod power yesterday in detail, and it had no effect. Then you did it again today. If it isn't understood by now, it's not going to be understood. But nice try.

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Re: Another ERN Question
Posted by: Norman Miller (---)
Date: July 28, 2022 04:24PM

He understands what rod power, action, and frequency are. He’s playing stupid and just being his usual PITA. Just ignore him, please.
Norm

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Re: Another ERN Question
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: July 28, 2022 04:52PM

I would suggest that Phil read a copy of Dr. Hanneman's "Fly Rod Expertise by the Numbers." It will answer every question he has posed including what, exactly, is a "soulful action." While somewhat tongue in cheek, it's on the mark as to where all the marketing jargon comes from and how it is arrived at. Maybe that will satisfy him.

.........

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Re: Another ERN Question
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---.inf6.spectrum.com)
Date: July 28, 2022 07:28PM

Tom: I understand that the stiffness of a rod blank influences the effective length of the blank and thus the distance of the cast. The more the blank bends during the cast the shorter the distance between the caster's hand and the tip-top, and the lower the velocity of the rod tip, line, and lure or bait. The mechanics of a type-1 lever (like a fish pole) has long been known. Longer distance between caster's hand (fulcrum) and tip of rod creates more speed at rod tip. The more the rod tip bends back toward the caster's hand the shorter the effective length of the rod (lever), and the slower the line speed, and the shorter the cast. I look forward to reading Fly Rod Expertise By the Numbers". Thanks for the tip.

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Re: Another ERN Question
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: July 28, 2022 08:46PM

Phil,

I am not talking about casting. No one here is. We are talking about rod power/stiffness. It is an inherent characteristic of any rod and you can measure it.

.............

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Re: Another ERN Question
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---.inf6.spectrum.com)
Date: July 29, 2022 04:47PM

Thanks, Tom. I can easily see the benefit in measuring a rod's stiffness - resistance to deflection. The stiffer the blank the longer the effective length of the rod during the cast and the more leverage/speed the rod is capable of generating. But stiffness [resistance to bending] is NOT power, which is calculated by weight, distance, and time. Conflating these terms in buyers' minds makes rod advertisers and retailers rich and would be casters discouraged and low on cash. All the power in the cast of a fishing rod comes from the caster, not a drop from his his cold, dead equipment. Forgive my persistence, but I hate to see advertisers sell anglers a bill of goods.

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Re: Another ERN Question
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: July 29, 2022 05:00PM

Phil, read the glossary definition. And stop whining about advertisers.

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Re: Another ERN Question
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: July 29, 2022 06:04PM

Phil,

You're not grasping the concept of what we're talking about here.

.........

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Re: Another ERN Question
Posted by: ben belote (---.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
Date: July 29, 2022 06:13PM

Phil, your grip is not with advertisers, They are just hired help. it,s the company owners that pay them to make up this nonsense..go after the big dog not the hired help if you got the nerve..lol.

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Re: Another ERN Question
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---.inf6.spectrum.com)
Date: July 30, 2022 09:05AM

If you are interested in a rod's performance more than its looks, especially in the case of fly rods, WHERE a rod bends is more important than HOW MUCH it bends.

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Re: Another ERN Question
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: July 30, 2022 10:47AM

Phil Ewanicki Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you are interested in a rod's performance more
> than its looks, especially in the case of fly
> rods, WHERE a rod bends is more important than HOW
> MUCH it bends.


And the AA measurement covers that.

...........

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Re: Another ERN Question
Posted by: ben belote (---.hsd1.va.comcast.net)
Date: August 04, 2022 06:51AM

Phil, you saying a rod has no power of it,s own.. I build what I call a bow and arrow rod where I just pull back the lure to put bend or bow in the rod , then release the lure which is shot by the rod up to sixty feet..I supplied the potential energy and the rod suppliec the power..The more I flex the rod the more energy it stores to shoot the lure..If I used a stiffer rod it would have more power..Aha, he,s thinking..If I look south towards Florida I can see the smoke..lol.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 08/04/2022 08:48AM by ben belote.

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Re: Another ERN Question
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---.inf6.spectrum.com)
Date: August 05, 2022 10:27AM

Everyone who switches to bow-and-arrow casting should use the blank you use to cast 60 feet! I have never managed to bow-and-arrow cast much farther than twenty feet. Please share the make and model of the rod blank you used, and the weight of the plug that sailed off sixty feet!

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Re: Another ERN Question
Posted by: ben belote (---.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
Date: August 05, 2022 10:54AM

No problem..the blank is a CRB 61/2' long cut back to 5' light power e fiberglass rod from Mudhole..I use 10# Power Pro line on a size 1000 reel spinning..shooting a 1/4 oz.rattle trap with the shot removed, no hooks when practice shooting..I think that covers it..I strongly suggest you practice to get timing down between lure release and line release...Good luck Phil..Just adding..instead of tying to the back of the rattletrap try tying to the tail end hook holder when practicing , I fish this lure alot in farm ponds and do not use a tail hook just a belly hook for safety..lol..It is a good idea to start with mono line which will help with timing then move on to braid later which will give you the most distance..also I wear a hoody..lol..Watch out for those hooks! You may want to crush the Barb's. By the way Phil, the guide train I use is not the designed for distance but for hook setting power but it still gets sixty feet..I do not recommend shooting lures like this and on!y use it because I don,t have room for a regular type cast..I do not shoot cast otherwise..I almost forgot, a shooting rod like this can be built for less than $50..Less than $40 if you use EVA and CRB guides.



Edited 8 time(s). Last edit at 08/06/2022 01:59PM by ben belote.

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Re: Another ERN Question
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---.inf6.spectrum.com)
Date: August 06, 2022 04:53PM

I wish I had known this when I was fishing trout streams with lots of cover over and around them! I always went with a longer rod and dapped the bait or lure. . . Now I fish the salt.

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Re: Another ERN Question
Posted by: ben belote (---.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
Date: August 06, 2022 06:14PM

And you use a fly rod..fly line is too heavy to shoot

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Re: Another ERN Question
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---.inf6.spectrum.com)
Date: August 11, 2022 11:15AM

It's clear that longer bow-and-arrow casts are a boon for older spinning rod anglers with bad shoulders! Rod blank marketers are ignoring a large (and well-off) group of spin-rod buyers/anglers. Advertisers should boldly state the bow-and-arrow cast distances which their products can achieve. Rod power does play a part in casting distance here - the WHOLE part!

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Current Page: 6 of 8


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