I
nternet gathering place for custom rod builders
  • Custom Rod Builders - This message board is provided for your use by the sponsors listed on the left side of the page. Feel free to post any question, answers or topics related in any way to custom building. When purchasing products please remember those who sponsor this board.

  • Manufacturers and Vendors - Only board sponsors are permitted and encouraged to promote and advertise products on the board. You may become a sponsor for a nominal fee. It is the sponsor fees that pay for this message board.

  • Rules - Rod building is a decent and rewarding craft. Those who participate in it are assumed to be civilized individuals who are kind and considerate in their dealings with others. Please respond to others in the same fashion in which you would like to be responded to. Registration IS NOW required in order to post. You must include your actual First and Last name and a correct email address when registering or posting. Posts which are inflammatory, insulting, or that fail to include a proper name and email address will be removed and the persons responsible will be barred from further participation.

    Registration is now required in order to post. You must include your actual First and Last name and a correct email address when registering or posting.
SPONSORS

2023 EXPO
EXPO ON FACEBOOK
CCS Database
Int. Custom Rod Symbol
Common Cents Info
American Tackle
Anglers Rsrc - Fuji
Back Creek Custom Rods
BatsonRainshadowALPS
CRB
HNL Rod Blanks–CTS
Custom Fly Grips LLC
Decal Connection
Flex Coat Co.
Get Bit Outdoors
HFF Custom Rods
HYDRA
Mickel's Custom Rods
My Rod Shop
Mudhole Custom Tackle
MHX Rod Blanks
North Fork Composites
REC Components
Rod Builders Warehouse
RodHouse France
RodMaker Magazine
RodMaker Blog
Schneiders Rod Shop
SeaGuide Corp.
Stryker Rods & Blanks
The Rod Room
Trondak U-40
Utmost Enterprises
VooDoo Rods

Handle length
Posted by: Aaron Wilde (---.ipv6.telus.net)
Date: July 05, 2022 11:57PM

Hey. I am building a custom rod with some very specific traits in mind. This is a rod for Coho Salmon and casting lures.


I am worried about my handle length and casting distance with lures about half an oz to 1 oz.

It is a 4 piece fly rod 8 wt switch blank moderate action. It is 10 foot 8 inches long. I will be building it into a bait casting rod.

Here's the thing though. I ordered a 10.5inch rear cork because I wanted to get as much beef out of the rod blank as possible (my thinking was the lower the reel seat placement the more beefy part of the blank is above the bait casting reel to fight the fish?).

I have the rod and handle components on the blank and while It feels fine holding the rod and reel, retrieving, putting the cork into my armpit or gut and pretending to fight a fish - all that feels fine. -

But when I make pretend casting motions it feels SIGNIFICANTLY different than my standard 13-14" Salmon/Steelhead rear grips on other rods. I have not glued any of the handle components on yet and am wondering what people think.

Do you think I will lose distance going from 13.5" handle to a 10.5" handle on a 10 ft 8 inch rod casting 1/2-1oz lead/lure?

I think tomorrow I will put the guides on with elastic bands and try it in a field with no glue on the handle end. I feel like it should cast just as far?

TY



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/06/2022 10:36AM by Aaron Wilde.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Handle length
Posted by: David Baylor (---.res6.spectrum.com)
Date: July 06, 2022 08:49AM

Aaron, I think going to that short of a handle on that length of rod is going to significantly affect your fish fighting ability Moving the reel seat back 3 or 4 inches is going to give the fish quite a bit more leverage. Even on smaller fish, you're probably going to end up reaching ahead of the reel to grab the rod in order to increase your pulling power.

Also, you seem to be thinking that from tip top to reel seat is the only portion of the rod that will be fighting the fish. If this were a short handled rod where you weren't anchoring the butt of the rod against a body part while fighting a fish, then your thinking would be in line. But as soon as you anchor the butt of he rod against any body part, you are now putting the entire length of the blank into play. A reel seat won't stop a blank from flexing beyond the point where the reel seat is located.

I also think that such a short grip could end up with some discomfort when casting. Again .... the added rod length between tip and reel seat coupled with the weight of the lure you're throwing could really put some stress on your wrists and forearms.

If it were me if a 13 - 14" grip length has worked well for you in the past, I would go with that number.

As you said though..... you can mock up the rod with the 10 1/2" handle and see how it casts. Personally I'd also wrap the guides on and run line through it so I could hook the line to something and actually get a feel for the rod when putting a load on it while it's in your hands. You can get a feel for the rod by flexing it against an object, but it's not the same as when you actually have line running through the guides, and the line tied to something that's some distance away.

It may seem like that would be a lot of work, but I can assure you, the time will be well spent, compared to the time it would take to tear the rod down to rebuild it if it doesn't end up being what you thought it would be.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/06/2022 08:50AM by David Baylor.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Handle length
Posted by: John DeMartini (---.res.spectrum.com)
Date: July 06, 2022 08:55AM

Your approach is sound. I would use masking tape to hold the guides in place. Elastic bands may not be suitable to keep the guides from shifting during testing.

Have fun.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Handle length
Posted by: Ivan Hartavel (---)
Date: July 06, 2022 09:33AM

Hello Aaron 13-14” I think would be to long for what your doing. I found that 11.5 - 12” works best for me. But I do not think you would lose distance going from 13.5 to 10.5.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Handle length
Posted by: Aaron Wilde (---.ipv6.telus.net)
Date: July 06, 2022 10:34AM

Perfect! I will test it out with guides taped on. And I will definitely tie line through the guides and onto something solid to static test the blank in hand as well. Thanks so much for the responses guys!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/06/2022 10:35AM by Aaron Wilde.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Handle length
Posted by: Spencer Phipps (---)
Date: July 06, 2022 11:41AM

Aaron simply wrap some masking tape arbors on the rod where your reel seat would be for any length rear grip you choose than slide it back and forth till you get what you want than build it. You never have to guess about anything when you do a mockup of everything and than go test it.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Handle length
Posted by: Denham Bruce (---)
Date: July 06, 2022 01:01PM

10.5" grip has to feel weird on a rod that length. I would stick to the classic 14" grip for your rod because I doubt the extra couple inches of "beef" is going to be worth it when casting and balance is awkward.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Handle length
Posted by: Spencer Phipps (---)
Date: July 06, 2022 01:40PM

Your blank should be built anticapating a 3.5-4 inch rear grip, reel seat, and 12 inch foregrip, you should have all the room your need either way.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Handle length
Posted by: chris c nash (---.atmc.net)
Date: July 06, 2022 01:58PM

DO NOT RUSH your decision on handle placement/reel seat placement etc.. , this is something that you do not want to get wrong . Take your time and only do a permanent bond when there are zero doubts .

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Handle length
Posted by: Ron Weber (---)
Date: July 06, 2022 02:46PM

What makes me the most nervous is a 10'8" 8wt throwing 1 oz. And Spencer, its a casting rod he's building, not a traditional switch

Ron Weber

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Handle length
Posted by: Aaron Wilde (---.ipv6.telus.net)
Date: July 06, 2022 03:33PM

Definitely I will not use any glue until I am 100% sure and have tested it.

I have done some static testing and ended up with 13 guides. It is a very parabolic rod (which I wanted). I could probably take a guide or two less but I wouldn't mind a little bit of dampening. All double foot guides as well ending with size 7 rings and tip.

The rod does feel slightly off balance but that doesn't bother me YET. I am about to go and try casting it with the 10.5 inch handle. It's all unglued and slightly loose but ill be able to make due for some practice casts.

As far as throwing 1 oz I wouldn't worry Ron. It is a 8 wt switch so more of a 10 wt single. It's rated for 390-440 grains, which on the conversion charts is 437 grains is 1 oz. I have also built a 9 wt single handed fly rod into a casting rod and it turned out excellently for throwing around 3/4 oz at most for distance, or 1 oz softly with a float. :)

I was also thinking of maybe putting a tiny piece of lead in the butt cap with glue to balance it if it does feel off balance during my casting tests.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/06/2022 03:36PM by Aaron Wilde.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Handle length
Posted by: Aaron Wilde (---.ipv6.telus.net)
Date: July 06, 2022 05:20PM

I just tested casting it in a field and it casts 1 oz incredibly far. I don't know how far exactly but far enough lol. I can absolutely feel the shorter handle but I don't want to say it feels bad.. it's just.. 3 inches shorter than what I am used to. My accuracy and distance felt fine. Retrieving felt fine. I'd say its 10% less comfortable during the cast since I am not used to it, and I believe since there's no glue I couldn't really hold the butt cap end properly as it kept falling off. Probably feels a lol better glued on. I'm not sure either way right now.

Edit: After a whole lot of twiddling my thumbs and holding the rod I decided to glue the handle up. Thanks for all the help guys!!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/06/2022 09:08PM by Aaron Wilde.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Handle length
Posted by: Norman Miller (---.lightspeed.jcsnms.sbcglobal.net)
Date: July 06, 2022 05:44PM

You might be able to get better balance using smaller lighter running guides. Size 7 double foot running guides seem like over kill to me and puts a lot of weight in the tip section. I think size 6 single foot runners might give better balance. If icing is not a concern, I might even go smaller,
Handle length to me is a personal choice. What ever works for you is fine.
Norm

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Handle length
Posted by: Aaron Wilde (---.ipv6.telus.net)
Date: July 21, 2022 11:35AM

Rod turned out great just to follow up and if anyone ever searches for information on handle length. 10" casts just as far as everyone else on the beach but it's not quite as comfortable as 13". Once you adjust it is totally fine though. It's actually better in the river float fishing with the 10" handle - feels more comfortable than 13" that everyone else uses to float fish with. I'm happy using it for both.








Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 07/21/2022 01:25PM by Aaron Wilde.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Handle length
Posted by: Leslie Cline (---)
Date: July 21, 2022 01:06PM

Thanks for sharing your process and end results, Aaron!

I enjoyed following this thread and reading about your quest for finding the best handle length. Like you, different handle lengths work better for different situations for me.

This discussion will make a great archive addition.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Handle length
Posted by: Lance Schreckenbach (---.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net)
Date: July 21, 2022 02:50PM

Came out great. When you shorten the grip it effectively makes the rod longer or at least the part that cast. You do loose some leverage but I think you gain the ability to keep the fish on more easily. We do a lot of short grips because the rods are used for wade fishing.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Handle length
Posted by: roger wilson (---)
Date: July 25, 2022 09:09AM

My goodness, leverage is never an issue as long as you can grip the rod with both hands and have one hand in front of the reel, anywhere you wish to place it.

Lots of folks will fish and fight a big fish with a rod that had no foregrip, and do just fine. Simply grab the rod blank where it is needed to supply leverage and haul away.

Also, for distance casting --- ALWAYS -- cast with two hands.

There is no comparison in casting with one hand, compared to using two hands to cast. Most folks will get a 20-30% increase in casting distance by using both hands.

You will also get a nice whistle in your bait or lure accelerating as the tip speed increases just prior to the launch of the hook, lure and or bait from the end of the rod.

For the folks who resist and wish to cast with only one hand, fine - it is their loss in distance and control that is gained by casting with two hands.

You will never ever find a contestant in a surf rod casting competition casting with one hand. The advantages found in surf casting apply equally well to spin and bait casting.

Best wishes



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/25/2022 09:12AM by roger wilson.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Handle length
Posted by: Tim Scott (---)
Date: July 25, 2022 10:00AM

Thanks for the update. I tend to be an outlier and prefer shorter grips. Wade, float, kayak vs shore.

Just curious what blank you used.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Handle length
Posted by: Aaron Wilde (---.ipv6.telus.net)
Date: July 25, 2022 12:14PM

roger wilson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My goodness, leverage is never an issue as long as
> you can grip the rod with both hands and have one
> hand in front of the reel, anywhere you wish to
> place it.
>
> Lots of folks will fish and fight a big fish with
> a rod that had no foregrip, and do just fine.
> Simply grab the rod blank where it is needed to
> supply leverage and haul away.
>
> Also, for distance casting --- ALWAYS -- cast with
> two hands.
>
> There is no comparison in casting with one hand,
> compared to using two hands to cast. Most folks
> will get a 20-30% increase in casting distance by
> using both hands.
>
> You will also get a nice whistle in your bait or
> lure accelerating as the tip speed increases just
> prior to the launch of the hook, lure and or bait
> from the end of the rod.
>
> For the folks who resist and wish to cast with
> only one hand, fine - it is their loss in distance
> and control that is gained by casting with two
> hands.
>
> You will never ever find a contestant in a surf
> rod casting competition casting with one hand.
> The advantages found in surf casting apply equally
> well to spin and bait casting.
>
> Best wishes

I definitely use both hands when I am going for distance. Using it in my local west coast rivers to float fish (bobber fish) I often only use one hand and make a sideways motion to send the float out to where I want it. The rivers generally aren't super wide and a float with lead under it weighs 1.5 oz or so usually. In these close quarter situations I don't find the need for both hands and am really loving the shorter handle on this rod for.


Tim Scott Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks for the update. I tend to be an outlier and
> prefer shorter grips. Wade, float, kayak vs
> shore.
>
> Just curious what blank you used.

The blank is a Batson Rainshadow REVF1088-4SB. It's rated as as a mod-fast fly blank but using it as a gear rod it feels more like a moderate or even a mod-slow rod - which is exactly what I wanted. I've hucked 1.5 oz of lead with it nearly as hard as I can and it hasn't folded yet :P. Awesome blank!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/25/2022 12:15PM by Aaron Wilde.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Handle length
Posted by: ben belote (---.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
Date: July 26, 2022 05:08AM

I. Agree with Roger..two handed casting a fly rod has taken all the wrist pain out of casting big hair bugs for bass for me..I wished I had made the change from day one..It has forced me to make shorter but stronger strokes coming back and casting forward. But I must disagree on grabbing the fore area of the rod to fight a big fish..I once watched a friend fight an eight pound bass..He really struggled to keep it from getting back into some pilings..several times shaking his right hand to relieve it. Because he had no foregrip just hard thin blank to hold onto...Also, I don,t think I have ever seen an off shore rod without a foregrip, usually a long foregrip..lol.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/26/2022 06:04AM by ben belote.

Options: ReplyQuote


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
Webmaster