Hi all,

I have finally decided to build my first rod. I plan to build spinning rod on NFC SB 683 blank, I would like to keep it as light as possible and pair it with new vanford 2500 (6.3 oz).
Thinking of fuji vss hidden thread reel seat(size 16) and fuji titanium frame sic-s guides. I think to trim foregrip cork a bit to reduce weight.
Will I achieve a minimum rod weight with this set up?
How would it balance with reel I choose?
Has anyone had any experience with sb 683 blank?

Sorry for stupid questions, I have no idea what I am doing. Any input and guidance will be highly appreciated.

Thanks.

Dee,
Welcome to the addiction!
At 6.3oz, the Vanford 2500 seems rather light. Any 1-piece seat will be heavier than a split, skeletal seat. One way or the other, consider a size 17 seat as many consider the 16 too small and uncomfortable. When one really thinks about it, a fore grip is not even required = less weight. The other (and very viable) consideration is a Tennessee handle = very light, totally adjustable reel position, can even swap a spin reel for a fly reel. …”minimum rod weight…” Now there is a loaded question! “How would it balance with reel I choose?” = yet another loaded question = one man’s tip-heavy is another man's tip light = ALL personal preference for the job at-hand. No, I have not used the SB683 blank.
There is no such thing as a stupid question; only ignorance is stupid.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

I was looking at Fuji KSKSS reel seat, afraid exposed blank would be uncomfortable to the touch. How would 16 or 17 size reel compare to megabass destroyer F2 reel seat?
I have rather small hands...
I considered Tennessee handle, not sure how secure reel will be in it. one thing I don't like about fishing is when reel come loose.
Thanks

also, sb683 blank has 0.472 butt diameter, with 17 reel size I would need to build up blank significantly, sacrifice the weight. What am I missing here?.

The only components that you mention that I have any experience with are the Fuji titanium guides with SIC rings. Specifically their T2 black titanium framed guides. They are extremely light and absolutely gorgeous guides. Definitely a great choice for keeping weight to a minimum.

Just want to share my opinion on your want to keep the build as light as possible. While I certainly understand wanting as light a rod as possible, I think how the rod and reel combination balance should be your main concern. An unbalanced rod is going to feel heavier while using it, than a balanced rod that weighs more. I have no doubts that you will hear those say to build it as light as possible, and let the balance fall where it may. You'll also hear suggestions of moving the reel seat further up the blank to achieve the balance you prefer. IMO those are not the best suggestions.

Building the rod as light as possible may end up with great balance, or balance that you find acceptable. That's totally up to you. Moving the reel seat closer to the tip can result in a rod that is difficult to use because of the length of the rear grip. If the rod and reel are close to being balanced where you initially think the reel seat should be, then moving the seat a bit forward may work. If it isn't, you might have to move the reel seat so much that it makes the rod difficult to use. Again, that's up to you to decide.

As far as building up an arbor to fit the reel seat to the blank goes ... if you use a foam shim to fill the void it will add very little weight, and the weight will be at the reel seat, and have pretty much zero affect on rod performance. Weight at or behind the reel seat doesn't hurt rod performance like it does if the weight is ahead of the reel seat. It just doesn't.

Anyhow .... were it me, I would build the rod with a reel seat position that makes the rod easy to manipulate and comfortable to use. If the rod and reel combination doesn't balance the way I wanted it to, I would have no hesitation in adding weight as close to the butt of the rod as you can. Again, it may increase the total weight of the combo, but it isn't going to kill the rod performance, and IMO can (depending on how far off the balance is) actually enhance the rod and reels in use performance.

Oh, and if you have no experience with a Vanford reel, you are going to absolutely love it !!! I have a 2500 Vanford on a rod I built on an NFC SJ 704 IM blank. While I love the rod, the reel is what really makes the deal.

I like both the IPS 16 and the VSS 17 seat. Although they are different sizes, they both have approximately the same OD of about 27 mm. This is because the reel seats are an integral part of the grip. The IPS seat is a little lighter and shorter than the VSS 17, and requires a smaller OD polyurethane foam arbor. I like to pair the IPS seat with the NFC soft touch carbon fiber IPS split grip. NFC doesn’t make a soft touch CF split grip for the VSS 17, but does make one for the VSS16. However, they do make regular carbon fiber split grips that will fit the IPS, and VSS17, as well as the VSS16, and VSS 15/16. All of these carbon fiber grips are extremely light, look and feel great, and are almost bullet proof. They are no more expensive than a good cork grip. I buy the IPS and VSS seats without a hood, this allows me to use the hood I want. I use either the KDPS or KSSKS hidden thread hoods, or the SSKS hood for when I don’t want a fore grip. I personally don’t like split reel seats for a spinning rod. I’m also not a fan of Tennessee handles. Most of the fancier spinning seats require an insert of some sort, thus increasing weight. Even though the VSS 16 has a smaller OD than a VSS17 or IPS, it’s OD is still larger than a size 17 or 18 DPS seat.
The Vanford 2500 and 3000 reels are very nice, I really like them. I own several along with the older stradic Ci4s.
Norm

The KSKSS is an uncomfortable reel seat to cast all day and work lures. Using it for primarily a bait rod will would work because you are not constantly casting and working the lure. Mark's Tennessee handle sounds like a great choice if you want it as light as you can get it. I like the Fuji VSS with a short EVA grip and hooded foregrip nut. Very comfortable and you could cut a little more weight using cork instead of EVA. David is spot on about placement of the reel seat. Dry fit with reel on and see where it balances best. I like mine a little farther back toward the butt of the blank. I am thinking you could get it to about 3.1 to 3.5 oz on the finished rod depending on the blank weight.

at this point I am leaning towards 16 vss seat because it'll require less arbor, with cork foregrip cut down to the edge of seat give or take, I wish to use carbon fiber foregrip but think I won't be able to shorten it without destroying some visual appearance, at 3.5 inch it feels loooong, carbon fiber butt and carbon fiber exposed hood grip.
guides as such:
T2-KGTT 4.5F X 01 pc
T2-KTTG 4.5 X 04 pcs
T2-KLTG 5.5L X 01 pc
T2-KLTG 6M X 01 pc
T2-KLTG 10H X 01 pc
T2-KLTG 20H X 01 pc
not sure if it'll perform the best with such size guides but this is what I have on my Destroyer it seems to do a trick.
Vanford is nice indeed. Shimano sold me on 6.3oz.

blank weight is 1.1 oz you think It'll add 2 oz with specs above?

I am not an expert on guide selection, others can chime in. But I don't think that you need that many guide Sizes. Can do more 16H 8H then 4.5 Runners. Not Certain the Line Size and type you are using. But you can look at the KR Concept layout at Anglers Resource.
This was the advice that was given to me when I was looking at building my rod.

The 3.75” length for the VSS 16 or IPS carbon fiber grips is actually quite short. If used in the down locking position, you have to remember when you grip the reel most of this length is under your hand, only about 1” will extend behind the hand. Also you should know that the VSS 16 seat has two different iDs. The front half of the seat (the threaded end) has an ID of 15 mm and the rear half has an ID of 13 mm. Because of this, it is becomes necessary to glue the arbors in the reel seat, using polyurethane foam arbors, before gluing the seat to the blank. You will need to turn down the rear arbor in order to get it to fit. Once the arbors are installed and cured, just ream to fit the blank. The VSS15/16 has the same 15mm ID throughout its length, but a Soft touch CF is not available for it.
As far as Fuji KR guides are concerned I would not use a four guide reduction train. I would use KL20H, KL10H, and KL5.5M for the reduction train followed by KB/KT runners. For a little lighter build you could certainly use a KL16H, KL8H, and KL5.5M reduction train, this will work extremely well with a 2500 reel. For a 6’8” rod I will normally use 8 to 9 guides total, mostly 9 guides.
Norm

line size 10lb spectra braid or equivalent to 15lb(spectra) Japanese pe braid because it very smooth and thin. my knots breaks at 4 lbs on 8 lbs pe line. thicker pe line seems to hold knot better



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/30/2022 02:15PM by Dee Rama.

so to clarify...
KL16, KL8H, and KL5.5M reduction + 5 (4.5) runners. Correct?

KL16H, KL8H, KL5.5M plus 5 or 6 runners (size 4.5). I would probably use 6 runners, but you can get away with 5. If you need help with the layout let us know.
Norm

I could use layout help.

The first question I guess, what side of the spine should I use for guides placement? outside of the curve (like G.Loomis does it) or inside of the curve (like a lot of people do it). By the way on my Destroyer guides placed inside of the curve. It kind of make sense to place inside of the curve so blank won't distress as much while vigorously fitting the fish. on the other hand Mr. Loomis "balance" statement makes a lot of sense as well. What side of the curve guides placed on NRX?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/30/2022 02:33PM by Dee Rama.

All kinds of loaded questions in this post. I love it.

Spine: If you aren't a "spine finder" do "outside of curve" where rod bend on straightest axis is tip up and guides underneath. If you want to roll your blank around then you can do it that way too. I personally do straightest axis tip up. They look better and there is published data showing the benefits of this method.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/30/2022 02:25PM by Aaron Petersen.

Like Aaron states. Orient the blank so any curve in the blank is on the straightest axis with tip up and guides underneath. You don’t want the tip veering off to one side or the other.
Norm

OK, like Mr.Loomis does it.., it is.

Guides spacing? do I start from tip top side or butt side?
does it matter?
My guess will be, to start with reduction train so I can adjust spacing the way so line wouldn't touch guide rings when blank is not under the load and/or line would run through center of the train rings. Is it possible to achieve?
continue with equally spaced 5 runners, perform static test and add additional runner if line is running close to the blank. Is this how it's done?

I read some place something about center of the reel to first runner or last train ring. Could someone also clarify what do I do with center of the reel to rings adjustment.

Static guide spacing method here---> [www.rodbuilding.org]

For guide placement setup your reduction train with the fuji gps tool. It is here--> [anglersresource.net]

for runners use the static guide placement method. You won't look back I promise.

Edit: Additionally when you place your reduction train, know that it is not perfect because of the limited inputs into the calculator. Read the entire instruction section and make sure your guides align as they state. It almost always takes a bit of finessing to get just right.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/30/2022 03:53PM by Aaron Petersen.

Use the KRGPS at Anglers Resource to get a tentative guide layout.
[anglersresource.net]
In your situation with a 2500 size reel and a KL16H based reduction train place the butt (stripper) guide about 19” (48 cm) in front of the reel spool and the choke guide (first runner) about 20” (51 cm) in front of the butt guide. Progressively space the other two reduction guides between the butt and choke guide. The remaining running guides are progressively placed between the tip top and the choke guide. I like to place the runner closest to the tip about 9 to 10 cm away from the tip top. I will use one or two more runners than the KRGPS recommends. After placing the guides do a static test to fine tune and then test cast. I like to do progressive guide spacing, to me it looks better and performs very well. Don’t be afraid to move the choke and/or butt guide in or out a little to get the spacing you like. There is a lot of flexibility in setting up a guide train, moving guides in or out a little will make no difference in performance. A tentative guide placement for your rod might be the following, with the distance in centimeters from the tip:
9,19, 30, 42, 55, 69.5 (choke), 85.5 (5.5M) 103 (8H) 122.5 (16H). This spacing is based on about 13” from the butt of the rod to the front of the reel spool. Fine tune with a static test, should perform very well. I have made a bunch of 6’8” and 6’9” spin rods using very similar spacing, and they perform great. I use the metric system for guide spacing, it makes it soooo much easier than dealing with fraction of an inch, almost like it was made for guide spacing.
Norm



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/30/2022 04:11PM by Norman Miller.