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Eliminating Reel Cranking Torque On the Rod
Posted by: Mark Talmo (---)
Date: May 12, 2022 05:11PM

OK, here’s a good one; has anyone devised a method of eliminating, or at least reducing, the inherent reel cranking torque imposed on a casting rod? I’m referring to the likes of a heavy saltwater tuna rod, not a lighter freshwater bass rod. Possibly even for bringing-up a pound of lead and a couple of rockfish 300ft. Sure, shorter guides or, better yet, spiral wrapped guides significantly reduce if not eliminate rod torque imposed by the line seeking the shortest path (= on the bottom of the rod) but I am concerned with the torque imposed by actually cranking the reel while under 30lb (+?) of drag. This would be for a stand-up / rail rod (West coast) and not for a gimbaled rod holder (East coast) and I want to take a gimbaled fighting harness out of the equation as well.
I have given this some thought from time-to-time over the past few years but have not been able come-up with a brainstorm solution. I have considered a “C” shaped brace which mounts to the blank or foregrip and cradles the wrist opposite the cranking hand, but that could be uncomfortable if not possibly dangerous. Also, clamped-on “paddle legs” (I would make them from CF which would be light and certainly strong) which extend 4-5in on either side of the rod to be rested on the rail but that could certainly be considered odd looking.
I never really considered such until battling a nice tuna with my first spiral wrapped rod = there was ZERO rod torque when the fish was taking line; but that emphasized how much torque was generated by cranking the reel when the fish was not running.
By the way, for those of you who have not built and / or fished a spiral wrapped rod, YOU SHOULD!!! = you’ll never go back to a conventional set-up!
And PLEASE, no suggestions of an electric reel = I believe they should be banned.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

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Re: Eliminating Reel Cranking Torque On the Rod
Posted by: Russell Brunt (---)
Date: May 12, 2022 05:31PM

The only thing that will reduce the amount of effort you expend turning the handle is a lower gear ratio. Consider adding a two speed reel to the arsenal. You don't have to spend a lot if you are patient and wait for deals. I was able to but some Shimano Tyrnos for about $200 on closeout.

With regards to saving your back: a more parabolic rod will lessen the lever arm advantage the fish has. Consider the Hercules series.

And I know you didn't ask but "I want to take a gimbaled fighting harness out of the equation as well" is a huge mistake if we are talking about actually fighting a tuna while standing up (as opposed to a thought experiment on this forum). Heck I use them for 15# class and up with dolphin, wahoo, and sailfish. Generally nothing more than a belt with some cup with a pin for the rod gimbal.

Couldn't agree more on the spiral wrap. Hard sell down here with the saltwater crowd. You left coasters were always a bit more progressive (and liberal LOL).

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

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Re: Eliminating Reel Cranking Torque On the Rod
Posted by: Mark Talmo (---)
Date: May 12, 2022 07:29PM

Russell,
Thank you for the reply.
I have two 2-speed reels (an Avet and a Daiwa) but I am not concerned with the effort required to turn the handle; rather the inherent torque generated / induced TO THE ROD by turning the handle under 30lb of drag.
I certainly agree, and use, a harness; foolish not to! I simply wanted to take the harness out of the equation so as not to dilute the torque effect generated by cranking the reel under load. Most harnesses, even simple “belly buttons” have a gimbal pin which reduces / masks how much torque cranking the reel actually inflicts on the rod. Many of the guys out here in SoCal simply put the butt of the rod in their gut or under their arm on smaller, say 50lb, tuna; they are studs, I am not = give me a harness.
I was under the impression that spiral wrapped rods were fairly prevalent on the East coast; maybe further north. Other than those I have personally built, I have only seen ONE spiral wrapped rod out here in over 40 years of charter boat trips…. and it was on the shelf of a tackle store; when asked about it, the owner said it had been there longer than he could remember. Captains and deckhands hate them for whatever reason. I am presently building a 150lb tuna stick for a repeat customer. I cannot even convince him to employ roller guides let alone spiral wrap the Fuji HBs.To each their own; I guess ignorance is bliss. But the customer is always right!!!!
It seems that you and I are pretty much on the same page concerning saltwater rods, even if the East coast is 3000 miles away from the Left coast.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

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Re: Eliminating Reel Cranking Torque On the Rod
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: May 12, 2022 09:27PM

Mark, are you asking about the twisting of the rod due to force applied to the crank which is off center when viewed from the top. Therefore torquing/twisting the rod in the restraining hand?

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Re: Eliminating Reel Cranking Torque On the Rod
Posted by: Ron Weber (---)
Date: May 12, 2022 10:28PM

Shhh! he's taking lessons from Phil

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Re: Eliminating Reel Cranking Torque On the Rod
Posted by: Mark Talmo (---)
Date: May 12, 2022 11:01PM

Michael,
Yes. The upswing and downswing of the reel handle causes the rod to rotate / torque accordingly.
Ron,
If you are referring to Phil Erickson, then OK. If you are referring to another Phil, then Shhh yourself!!!! Lol (but not really).

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Re: Eliminating Reel Cranking Torque On the Rod
Posted by: Alex Weissman (---)
Date: May 13, 2022 09:01AM

Have you considered a narrower reel?

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Re: Eliminating Reel Cranking Torque On the Rod
Posted by: Mark Talmo (---)
Date: May 13, 2022 03:50PM

Alex,
Thanks. You are certainly correct in that a narrower reel would reduce the torque imposed on the rod. I rarely use my old Senators any more in favor of the more compact 2-speed daiwa and Avet. Nonetheless, cranking the reels under load still produces that annoying back and forth rotational torque of the rod. I have started building the foregrip larger in diameter which helps, but doesn’t solve.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

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Re: Eliminating Reel Cranking Torque On the Rod
Posted by: Charles Eaton (---.phlapa.fios.verizon.net)
Date: May 13, 2022 05:04PM

First, not a builder but am a 99% spiral convert for tuna. i have 3 with another in the works. First 2 are "boat" poles between 5.5' and 6' and hold the biggest reels (Avets). Third rod is 7' with smaller Avet. The 2 big ones are 2-speeds and I have found that in lo there is no handle crank torque on either. One had a sword (estimated double marker) on for over 2 hr. before line (80#) parted. Both lifted blue sharks 8-12' to cut-off. Used both gears on each-- in lo no torque, in hi yes some. The 7'er has handled 70# longfin with no torque; that reel's a one speed and that's a narrow which I think also helps.
All my rods have gimble butts. Only reason for that is to keep rod from spinning in rail rod holder. 99% of Head boats here in New Jersey have tubes welded at intervals to the rail with a pin through at the bottom for the gimble as primary rod storage. All rod storage is different, as I remember, on the left coast. I haven't used a belt for over 20 yrs. although I still have 2.
My thinking is, experience has been, that lo-speed really stops that torque problem along with the longer rod. BUT, the lighter and longer the rig, the better. The new build is 8' and have all roller guides instead of ring guides. We'll see how that works!!!

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Re: Eliminating Reel Cranking Torque On the Rod
Posted by: Mark Talmo (---)
Date: May 14, 2022 12:33AM

Charles,
Thanks for your input as well.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

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Re: Eliminating Reel Cranking Torque On the Rod
Posted by: roger wilson (---)
Date: May 14, 2022 07:56AM

Mark,
With respect to your comment about "banning electric reels"; what does a person do, if that person only has one hand, or one arm or no fingers on one hand. How does one get the fish into the boat after a good hook up?

It is a big world out there and many many handicapped really enjoy going fishing, no matter their physical limitations.

Take care

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Re: Eliminating Reel Cranking Torque On the Rod
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (97.104.222.---)
Date: May 14, 2022 03:26PM

The easiest solution is to take up fly fishing. Not much torque on a fly rod. Next-best solution might be turning reel seat and guides 180 degrees (facing down) and building a reel to accommodate such an arrangement?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/14/2022 04:05PM by Phil Ewanicki.

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Re: Eliminating Reel Cranking Torque On the Rod
Posted by: Robert A. Guist (---.res6.spectrum.com)
Date: May 14, 2022 04:07PM

Hello Mark.

There used to be a head boat in Morehead City NC (I believe it was Capt Stacy IV or Carolina Princess) the rail was stainless steel 1" tubing with holes drilled about every 2.5-3 feet and the rods had a stainless bolt on a bracket clamped to the rod under the reel.
You just put the pin through the hole in the rail and it could swivel up and down and being round you can swivel right and left but the rod could NOT twist, I think I might have one at my old shop but I'm not sure (My old shop was flooded out by Florence).


Hope this helps.

Tight Wraps & Tighter Lines.

Bob,

New Bern, NC.

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Re: Eliminating Reel Cranking Torque On the Rod
Posted by: Mark Talmo (---)
Date: May 15, 2022 12:22AM

Roger,
Your point is extremely well-taken and thank you for bringing it to everyone's attention. I embarrassingly admit to overlooking physically challenged anglers. Obviously (hopefully), in such a case as you described, electric reels should not only be allowed but encouraged as well.
Robert,
Thank you for your contribution as well. That sounds like a pretty good solution until the fish starts running up or down the rail. I am still seeking a method of restricting (ultimately eliminating) the back and forth rod torque caused by simply turning the handle of a reel under load for stand-up and / or rail rods. I totally understand, agree and have experienced lower ratio reels reducing the said torque effect. I am looking for a method to eliminate that torque just as spiral wrapped guides eliminate LINE torque on the rod. I have given it a considerable amount of thought but a solution escapes me, hence my inquiry.
While it may just be the “nature of the beast” with no solution, I am not giving-up just yet; but I need help (possibly in more ways than one lol).

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

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Re: Eliminating Reel Cranking Torque On the Rod
Posted by: Spencer Phipps (---)
Date: May 15, 2022 11:48PM

Buy a Canadian Mooching reel, like fly reels you would think they display minimal torgue. Hand protection may just be mandatory however.

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