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Help! Cork bore larger than blank
Posted by: Mike Juliana (136.226.55.---)
Date: April 25, 2022 08:01PM

Here's my dilemma - I purchased a trout spey kit and the bore for both the foregrip and the rear grip is larger than the blank.
The handle bore is about 0.42", the blank is about 0.38" at the bottom of the foregrip and where the top will be is about 0.33."

I've read some of the past threads but had some questions about different approaches.

First approach - use tape arbors. The foregrip is 11" long so this could be a lot of arbors. I'm not a fan of this approach but what width of tape and spacing between arbors? How real is the possibility of the cork cracking over time?

Second Approach - use something like a flex coat arbor under the handles. Could use several and eliminate any gaps in between. Is this the better approach?

I know dry wall tape is another option as well.

Thanks,
Mike J

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Re: Help! Cork bore larger than blank
Posted by: Robert Flowers (---.res6.spectrum.com)
Date: April 25, 2022 08:35PM

With the tape arbors, you fill the gaps between the tape with rod makers paste epoxy. Over fill. when you slide the corkinto place, there are no gaps between the blank, and handle, making a secure, and strong fit. Epoxy sets by a chemical reaction, and doesn't shrink as it sets. Just make sure to remove any excess uncured epoxy from the front and back of the grips.. Ready made arbors can be purchased to fill the space between the handle and blank. I haven't had good luck with these. I prefer using a tape arbor and epoxy paste. Tspacing shoul be about an inch apart, with the tape wound around the blank to make a tight fit as the handle is slid in plce. As the blank diameter changes, the amount of tape wound onto the blank changes to make a proper fit for each arbor. Iuse 8thinch tape strips. You can purchase a roll online, or at many craft stores. It's inexpensive. Others will secure their handles differently. I'm sure that you will get more responses.

Tight Lies and frisky fish

RJF

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Re: Help! Cork bore larger than blank
Posted by: roger wilson (---)
Date: April 25, 2022 08:59PM

Mike,
As Robert suggested, just use tape arbors. I use 1/2 inch wide tape to create rows of arbors of the correct size to match the id of the grip. I space them 1/16th of an inch apart. I just use 30 minute cure standard epoxy when it comes time to glue everything together.

I have the rear grip, the fore grip and the reel seat all set to slide together. Then I mix up one batch of 30 minute cure epoxy and apply it generously to coat the rod blanks as well as applying a layer on the inside of the grips and reel seat. Slip them all together, make sure that they are all clamped securely and then clean up all of any excess epoxy using denatured alcohol.

The grips and reel seat will stay nice and tight just as long as the rod is in service.


Best wishes

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Re: Help! Cork bore larger than blank
Posted by: Mike Juliana (136.226.55.---)
Date: April 25, 2022 09:18PM

Thanks Robert and Roger for weighing in and sharing. I've used plenty of tape arbors under reel seats so my primary concern is really the length of the foregrip (11") and it's not metal so it's flexible.

With 1/8" tape and 1" spacing as suggested by Robert, that is still 10ish arbors to build.
With 1/2' tape with 1/16" spacing (wow) as suggested by Roger, that's close to 20 arbors. What's the idea behind the narrow spacing? Maybe a compromise with 1/2" tape and 1/2" spacing?

Thanks,
Mike J

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Re: Help! Cork bore larger than blank
Posted by: Spencer Phipps (---)
Date: April 25, 2022 11:35PM

I'd do a thread wrap, no need for it to be pretty, then do a minor ream to fit. Glue up normally.

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Re: Help! Cork bore larger than blank
Posted by: Mark Talmo (---)
Date: April 26, 2022 01:03AM

Mike,
There is a difference between purchasing a “rod-building-kit” and purchasing all the components separately = the KIT should be ready to assemble. Otherwise, what is the purpose or benefit of a KIT in the first place?!?!?! A 0.010 - 0.020in gap between the blank and grip might be acceptable, but 0.040in or greater seems excessive to me. It would be bad enough if the grips were smaller and required reaming. I would question the retailer to see if they offer proper fitting grips.
If you get the typical meadow-muffin story from the retailer, arbors are your only option (unless you want to try to “hero” it by sliding the grips into position with lots of epoxy and try to get it as concentric as possible). Foam arbors are the best bet, but you will have to either enlarge the ID of the grips or reduce the OD of the foam arbors (and with only 0.040in difference = ONLY 0.020in wall thickness, that is not realistic). One way or the other, a lot of sizing of the arbors will be required.
Enter masking tape arbors; quick, easy, effective. This subject is an ongoing debate with strong convictions on both the pro and con sides. My conviction is that IF PERFORMED PROPERLY, tape arbors are as secure as anything else. 0.25in wide tape bushings 2.0in apart are very secure as long as there is ample epoxy between them. This can be easily accomplished by continually packing the epoxy into the leading edge of the grip as it is slowly pushed into position while rotating back-and-forth. If weight is a major concern, micro spheres can be added to the epoxy to reduce its weight considerably. All the tape does is center the grip to the blank and is totally encapsulated in epoxy, and there is almost 100% contact between the grip and blank. I have not experienced any failures with any of my tape arbors.
I know tape arbors are frowned upon by others and I respect their opinions, however, I will refrain from debating the issue.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

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Re: Help! Cork bore larger than blank
Posted by: Kendall Cikanek (---)
Date: April 26, 2022 08:41AM

That is just too wide and long of a gap for me to want to fill because the pieces grouped into a “kit” aren’t appropriate for each other. It’s very close to a tenth of an inch difference in diameter at the top of a fairly long grip. Without custom making a foam shim (which would be really difficult when a kit is supposed to be easy), every other available technique is going to be heavy. The gap at the top exceeds 1/4 the diameter of the blank, that is proportionally a very big gap.

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Re: Help! Cork bore larger than blank
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: April 26, 2022 09:11AM

Shim with thread or cord. Spiral up the blank and then down as far as needed to accommodate the larger space near the fore end of the grip. Paper tape has no place on a fishing rod.

There is also a point where shimming a cork grip is not appropriate. If the gap is too large, say more than about 1/8 all around the circumference, I think I'd contact the kit supplier and ask for a grip that fits the blank a bit better. You can add a lot of weight to a rod by using epoxy to fill in that much of a gap.

........

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Re: Help! Cork bore larger than blank
Posted by: roger wilson (---)
Date: April 26, 2022 09:53AM

Mike,
Epoxy has weight.
Thus, when doing the job it is to your advantage to use less epoxy.
Hence, my suggestion to use masking tape arbors with a 1/16th spacing between each of the arbors.
So what if there are 10 arbors or 20 arbors. It only takes a few moments to wrap each arbor. Size the arbors so that the grip is just a nice fit on the arbor with just enough room to get a thin layer of epoxy between the arbor and the inside of the grip.
Then, with the small gap between each arbor filled with a small amount of epoxy, the tape will be nicely encapsulated and safe from any sort of deterioration. In reality, it should take no more than about 15 minutes to do the entire job of applying the arbors, applying the epoxy and sliding the grip/s and reel seat in place for final placement on the rod and you will be good to go after cleaning up any epoxy that might have gotten on the outside of the grip/s and reel seat.

The tape is much lighter than the epoxy, so enough tape to fill the gap and a small amount of epoxy to fill the spaces between the arbors and epoxy to coat the inside of the grip and reel seat and you will be good to go.

Your rod, your choices.

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Re: Help! Cork bore larger than blank
Posted by: Kendall Cikanek (---)
Date: April 26, 2022 11:06AM

The gap at the top is nearly twice as wide as the amount of taper in the blank over the 11 inches. If filling this is acceptable, then there is no reason for the existence of tapered reamers.

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Re: Help! Cork bore larger than blank
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: April 26, 2022 11:12AM

I recently tore down a reel seat on a rod that I had made decades ago and when it was new, I used it quite a bit. The cork grip looked like it had been through a war. The shiimming I used back then was masking tape. On tear-down there was no sign of deterioration. I think but do not remember for sure that I used two part epoxy as an adhesive.

I think when the gap is too small to use a rigid polyurethane arbor that masking tape makes sense, and when properly encapsulated, will last forever.

I also think that the space between tape arbors in this case can be much larger than 1/16 inch and still will work just fine. I would not try to fill the gaps with epoxy but would simply make sure that the tape was encapsulated.

This is a good example where there are a lot of differing opinions, and most likely all will work. Some will be lighter than others. The obvious correct solution is to get a grip that better fits the blank.

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Re: Help! Cork bore larger than blank
Posted by: Lance Schreckenbach (---.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net)
Date: April 26, 2022 02:14PM

Tape as mentioned above will work fine. It is the space between the tape that the epoxy will bond to the blank and the grip so you will want that bond to be at both ends and the middle. Spacing the tape a distance from each end and with gaps in the middle of the grip.

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Re: Help! Cork bore larger than blank
Posted by: Lynn Behler (---.44.66.72.res-cmts.leh.ptd.net)
Date: April 26, 2022 07:20PM

Drywall tape.

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Re: Help! Cork bore larger than blank
Posted by: Mike Juliana (136.226.55.---)
Date: April 26, 2022 08:30PM

Thanks everyone for the suggestions. I did use tape arbors and epoxy. I've used tape in the past under reel seats but I know there are differing opinions on this. My main concern was the 11" length. I rationalize the weight penalty telling myself that the weight is in the butt section and the rod will always be used casting with two-hands.

I did reach out to the retailor who said to use tape arbors. I was hoping to find out that they shipped me the wrong handle kit. This was my first purchase from this vendor but I won't be going back.

Thanks,
Mike J

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Re: Help! Cork bore larger than blank
Posted by: Ron Schneider (---.mid.dyn.suddenlink.net)
Date: April 27, 2022 11:39AM

Just watch for "Voids" between arbors of any kind when dealing with a cork grip.
I had a local builder years ago try to save time on a fly rod with too big a gap between tape arbors under the grip.
It resulted in a void (possibly not enough epoxy under), which in the flexing of the blank during casting eventually cracked the cork.
He ended up stripping the cork and reel seat, putting the tape arbors no more than about 1/4' apart.
As far as I know, never another problem.
The more a blank might flex in the grip area, the more critical not to have any unfilled void under the grip.
Hope this helps,

Best wishes,
Ron Schneider
Schneider's Rod Shop
Mountain Home, Arkansas
[www.schneidersrods.com]
schndrod@suddenlink.net
870-424-3381

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Re: Help! Cork bore larger than blank
Posted by: Mike Juliana (136.226.55.---)
Date: April 27, 2022 01:53PM

Ron Schneider Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just watch for "Voids" between arbors of any kind
> when dealing with a cork grip.
> I had a local builder years ago try to save time
> on a fly rod with too big a gap between tape
> arbors under the grip.
> It resulted in a void (possibly not enough epoxy
> under), which in the flexing of the blank during
> casting eventually cracked the cork.
> He ended up stripping the cork and reel seat,
> putting the tape arbors no more than about 1/4'
> apart.
> As far as I know, never another problem.
> The more a blank might flex in the grip area, the
> more critical not to have any unfilled void under
> the grip.
> Hope this helps,

Yes, very helpful. My spacing was larger than the 1/4" but I was generous with epoxy so I don't think there are any large voids. Time will tell. If the cork does crack in the future, I'll just have to learn how to strip the cork and reel seat to rebuild. I haven't yet learned those repairs skills so I'll take that as the silver lining in this. I really appreciate everything I've learned from this forum. Great set of generous folks.

Thanks,
Mike J

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Re: Help! Cork bore larger than blank
Posted by: roger wilson (---)
Date: April 27, 2022 09:26PM

Mike,
I am curious as to why you choose not to use gaps of only 1/16th inch. If you had, you use much less epoxy and you have a solid interior under the cork with no breaks nor voids?

I am sure you have a good reason, just wondering what it is.

Take care

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Re: Help! Cork bore larger than blank
Posted by: Mike Juliana (---.bvtn.or.ptr.ziplyfiber.com)
Date: April 27, 2022 10:01PM

roger wilson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mike,
> I am curious as to why you choose not to use gaps
> of only 1/16th inch. If you had, you use much less
> epoxy and you have a solid interior under the cork
> with no breaks nor voids?
>
> I am sure you have a good reason, just wondering
> what it is.
>
> Take care

You give me too much credit Roger. No real good reason other than I couldn't fathom that much tape under the cork and maybe a bit of laziness. As in all things rod building, there was a diversity of opinions on how to approach this (even with tape) so I took an approach that was more in the middle of the suggestions (laziness).

I also didn't fully understand the danger of the possibility of the cork cracking when the rod butt flexes (ignorance). We'll see what happens over time and I can report back any findings.

Thanks,
Mike J

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Re: Help! Cork bore larger than blank
Posted by: ben belote (---.hsd1.va.comcast.net)
Date: April 28, 2022 11:09AM

It's a shame you could not send the kit back because it wasn,t really a kit

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