Hey guys, hope I'm not beating a badly beaten horse here but here it goes. I'm looking to build the lightest most sensitive rod that can be built. I know I'm going to be in deep but I'd be in deep if I bought an nrx+ anyway. I have the spare time to spend to tinker and the patience to do it right. 7' spinning rod, it'll never see more than 3/8 oz fast or extra fast, I understand there are lots of opinions on what is best and I welcome any and all suggestions, tips, tricks, and advice. Thanks in advance!!

Shawn,

Welcome to the forum!

You are right, there are a lot of opinions, and here’s mine:

You bought an NRX+ from G.Loomis, and although Gary Loomis no longer has any association with Shimano, the company that owns the G.Loomis brand now, he does own North Fork Composites, a factory based in the US, dedicated to the manufacturing of performance fishing blanks.

Take a look at the X-Ray series of blanks, specifically the SJ703 (attaching a link) I think you will be very pleased with it.

[northforkcomposites.com]

Shawn Mattson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hey guys, hope I'm not beating a badly beaten
> horse here but here it goes. I'm looking to build
> the lightest most sensitive rod that can be built.
> I know I'm going to be in deep but I'd be in deep
> if I bought an nrx+ anyway. I have the spare time
> to spend to tinker and the patience to do it
> right. 7' spinning rod, it'll never see more than
> 3/8 oz fast or extra fast, I understand there are
> lots of opinions on what is best and I welcome any
> and all suggestions, tips, tricks, and advice.
> Thanks in advance!!

I definitely like that price. The mudhole elite x that fits the bill is 175 and the kw... Phewwwww. Lol thanks for the suggestion. I'm actually looking to buy guides tonight. A site has a Easter sale and 15% off. I have done some research and think a fuji Ti torzite 20h,10h, 5.5m, with 4x 4.5 runners to the tip top sound accurate?

For a 7’ spin rod you will need at least 6 KB/KT runners. Four runners is just too few.
Norm

I ended up getting 5 of the kts, should I get with a 5kb between the 5.5m and the 4.5kts? If I have a leftover kt I won't be disappointed. It'll just give me an excuse to build another one. Lol

I'd be curious as to what you're going to use it for. Saying there will never be more than 3/8 oz on it doesn't really say much.

I haven't built on the blank that Aleks suggested, but I have built on 2 X ray blanks, and they have the sensitivity you're looking for. If you're going with an X ray because of the price, I can certainly understand that, but ...... I know of another series of blanks although not offering as many choices, are every bit as sensitive as the X ray blanks, and that is the RX 10 Eternity blanks from Rainshadow.

I've only built on one of the blanks. The ETEC72M. If you are looking to build a rod that will be used for bass fishing using tube jigs or shaky head jigs, you would do yourself a huge favor to consider that blank. It's listed as a casting blank but I built a spinning rod on it.

If you're looking to fish Ned rigs, or shaky heads, and probably even tube jigs, the ETES72M would be an awesome choice as well. While I have no experience with the latter blank, I will very soon, as I will be ordering on in the next week or so. I have no doubts that will be just as great as the ETEC72M blank that I have built on.

They're higher priced than the X rays, but if you're going with Torzite guides, price isn't something you're considering anyhow. lol

This rod will be my go-to spinning rod. I'll cast and vertical jig walleyes with it, I'll Ned with it, Shakey head, wacky, it's got big shoes to fill. Lol

Get a 4.5 KB, it will work fine. No need for a different size runner. On 7’ KR spin rod I normally use 9 guides total, the 3 reduction guides and six runners. In my opinion, the KR GPS under estimates the number of runners needed, I usually add one or two extra runners then it suggests.
Norm

As usual Norman is spot on with the number of guides you'll need. Yes to KB guide next in line to your final reduction train guide. The size is up to you. Torzite rings have a larger ID than SIC or Alconite guides. Because of that, if you're using braid or a nice limp nylon mono, a 4.5 KB would be my choice. I use fluorocarbon for the main line on my spinning gear. Because of that I would go with the size 5 KB that you mentioned.

The reason for the size difference is just my personal choice because fluorocarbon line is more stiff than the other lines. I have zero proof that the larger guide helps with fluorocarbon line, but it does in my head, so that's good enough for me.


Was typing my second response while Norman was typing his so ...... lol



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/16/2022 08:20PM by David Baylor.

David Baylor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> They're higher priced than the X rays, but if
> you're going with Torzite guides, price isn't
> something you're considering anyhow. lol

For what a high end rod costs I'll be able to get all the components AND tools to build something that might be better than the mass production rod I would have bought. Cost is not a factor. Lol

Ok I'll pick up the matching k guide on my next shopping spree.

I really appreciate your guys help!!!

Shawn,

If you haven't already done so, go to the Angler's Resource website and look at the information on the KR GPS. Look in this order:

KR Guide Placement Software

Scroll down beyond that section to "The Easy Way to Master the KR Concept" and look at the grouping of the reduction guides. That is a wealth of information.

I also usually always add at least 1 or 2 KB's after the reduction train before the runners. Make sure that you static test your rod with the guides taped on. It's critical to how that rod is going to react. Tom Kirkman's method is the one I use and it is also offered as a tutorial on the Angler's Resource website.

From what I'm reading on your intended use for this rod, one of the best rods I own is an equivalent to a St. Croix Legend Elite 7' ML Fast that I built when St. Croix was a sponsor. Sensitive enough to easily feel the bite on a 9" perch and strong enough to handle 4# smallmouth bass. High end American made blank. They no longer sell blanks, but if you call them they might be able to tell you where they can be found. I like Batson's blanks too, and they are good people.

And Norm is absolutely right, you'll likely need more runners, but the Static Testing will tell you that.

Dave Sytsma

The NFC P703 hm may be another blank to check out. I've built on a few they are a super spin jig blank.

I suspect the sensitivity of a rod could be scientifically measured but I have never seen any such measurements, only individual opinions. I believe physical science would predict the lightest and stiffest rod paired with the least stretchy line would provide optimum sensitivity.

Yes, it sounds like the rod you want to build has some big shoes to fill. I would ask what kind of weights you'll be using most often, as IMO it would affect the blank I would choose. Also, what kind of line you're planning on using?

If you're using braid, and will be throwing baits with a total weight of up to 3/8 oz. my personal choice would be the ETES72M from Rainshadow's RX10 Eternity line up. Braid will help with a blank that is a little less powerful, and the blank will allow you to throw lighter baits more easily.

If the baits you'll be throwing have a total weight of 1/4 oz - 1/2 oz. my personal choice would be the ETEC72M. It's a more powerful blank, and will fish the heavier baits better, as well as giving you more hook setting power on long casts. Line type wouldn't factor into my decision for the ETEC blank. As I said, I have a spinning rod built on that blank, and it has good power. And for me personally, as long as the rod will cast the weights I will be using, well, I will always lean towards the more powerful blank. It's just my preference.

There are a couple reasons I would go with the RX 10 blanks over the others mentioned. One reason being ... I don't have experience with the other blanks. I have no idea if they would be what I was looking for. The second and most important reason is that Batson supplies CCS numbers for the RX 10 blanks.

Briefly, CCS is a way to test a blank for its' actual power and action. Once you understand the testing and what the numbers mean in relationship to how the rod will perform, it makes choosing a blank much less of a guessing game. Rather than go into it here, I would just suggest reading the CCS information link in the left hand column of this page. The one thing I would say concerning the ERN numbers that CCS uses, is that without a conversion chart, they don't really tell you a lot about the actual power of the blank. Intrinsic Power aka IP in grams is, at least for me, much more relateable.

Anyhow, here is a link to the CCS numbers for the RX 10 blanks. [www.dropbox.com] They also have suggested use recommendations for the various blanks.

I am sure the other blanks that have been suggested are awesome blanks. But I know that the RX 10 blanks are awesome blanks. Every bit as sensitive as the X ray blanks I have built on. I guarantee you would not be disappointed by going with an RX 10 blank. You just need to choose the blank that you think will fit the power you are looking for, from the rod you want to build.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/2022 10:17AM by David Baylor.

I received my guides today, the 722 x-ray blank will be here in 2-3 weeks per NFC. 3.59 grams total guide weight ( not including the kb that's on the way or the tip top). 1.5oz manufacturer spec's blank weight. 6.3 oz Shimano vanford 3000. Now to order the reel seat and the grips. I'm going to wrap it in the same crimson red the vanford sports. She should be pretty easy on the eyes. Lol

Shawn, I recently finished a rod that I put a 2500 Vanford on. I too went with red trim bands, as well as a couple of red trim rings. I just tried uploading a picture of the rod, but the file is too big. I'd take another picture, but the rod is out in my boat, and I have a tournament tomorrow and I don't really want to tear my rod locker apart right now. I'll take a picture of it tomorrow and post it later.

Anyhow .... if you are looking for a metallic thread color that matches the red in the Vanford, I went with Sulky Silver Metallic in the #145-8054 red. It is extremely close to being a perfect match for the red in the Vanford. I tried 3 other colors from Hitena as well. Hitena has a color in their Zebra line of thread that is also a very close match, but it's not as flashy as the Sulky. The Hitena color you may want to consider is #1508 Candy Apple,

The Sulky thread isn't a twisted thread like the Hitena or Pro Wrap would be. It's a flat thread that lays on the blank quite nicely. With it laying flat, a two thread wrap of the Sulky is the same width as a 4 thread wrap of Pro Wrap. The Sulky is very slick and a little difficult to hold on to compared to a twisted metallic thread like Pro wrap, when pulling it tight. It's also more delicate, so you have to be careful when pulling it through and under wraps.

The Hitena is a twisted metallic and pretty dang strong. It's a deeper kind of purplish red, but as I said, it isn't as flashy so it isn't as bright.

I am extremely happy with the way my rod turned out using the Sulky thread I mentioned. The only thing I wish I would have done is put a single silver metallic accent in the middle of the wrap. It would have given the wraps an even more custom look. I mentioned my picking up an RX10 ETES72M blank. I'm going to build another look alike rod except I'll add the silver accent, and put the Vanford on it. I really like the rod I have it on right now, but the reel is so sweet, I want to build a rod on the best blank I can. And for what I want the rod to be, the RX 10 blank will be perfect !!!

As I said, I'll take another picture of the rod tomorrow and post it so if you're interested, you can take a look.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/22/2022 08:09PM by David Baylor.

I'd love to see it! As far as the accent thread I was thinking of 2 single silver accents 4 wraps in between, on each of my guides. I think for the sake of this being my first build I'll go with a stronger thread. i appreciate the input! Look forward to seeing your build and do share your thoughts on the vanford. I haven't got to fish mine yet and I think I'm going to attempt to keep it off of a rod till my build is done but that is going to require so much self discipline... It's so smooth, light, I want to hear that drag scream with a football smallie on the other end. Lol

Good luck in the tournament! Tear em up!!!

Shawn, here is a photo of the rod I mentioned above. After reading your post concerning thread color over again, I may have been mistaken in thinking you were just going to use the crimson red for metallic trim bands. Sounds as if you may be using it as your main wrap color. if that's the case, then disregard my comments on metallic thread, or store it in the memory banks for a possible future build.

As far as the Vanford goes, it fishes just like I am sure you've felt in just playing with it. It is butter smooth, and even though it is extremely light, it feels very solid. I don't know what reels you've used in the past, but comparing it to my Shimano Saros, and Ultegra, it feels just as solid as those reels do, and they have aluminum bodies and frames. The Vanford frame and body is CI4+ material. As is the rotor and the spool. One thing I noticed over the other reels that I mentioned having is that it is easier to start the handle turning when starting a retrieve. It just feels quicker on start up.

I have 8# Tatsu on it, and will be using it for smaller finesse baits. The bait in the picture is a little 3 1/4" craw tube that I make, that I have on an 1/8th oz tube jig head. I didn't fish the tournament I mentioned as my partner phoned me early in the morning saying he couldn't make it, so I went out to a local electric motor only lake. I caught 4 fish total. 2 keepers, and 2 dinks, and I lost a good one on a jerkbait. Dang thing was barely hooked on the rear treble, and in fumbling for my net, I lost it. Oh well. it was a fun fishing day. lol The two keepers I caught, I caught on the rod pictured. They weren't big though. Biggest of the 2 was 14". As I said above, I like the rod, but with an IP of 533 grams, it is more powerful than I was hoping it would be for the specs that it has. Another moment when I wish I had had CCS IP and AA numbers for a blank before purchasing it. Had I known, I wouldn't have picked that blank.

That is why I am going to build a new rod for the Vanford on an RX 10 ETES72M blank. Having the CCS numbers for the blank that Batson provided makes me positive the blank will have the power I am looking for, That, and while the NFC IM blanks are nice sensitive blanks, they aren't on the same level as the RX 10 blanks. The RX 10s are on the same level as the NFC X ray blanks when it comes to sensitivity.


Anyhow ..... here is the picture [www.rodbuilding.org]

Hey thanks! That's a nice looking setup. I like the red accents at the top and bottom of the grip. I'm doing split rear and was planning for some red anodized winding checks similar to what you have going on except the split grip version. And it sounds like I'll be happy with the x-ray blank. ????????

Is the tube between the reel seat a functional necessity or just to dress it up?