Fly rods cast weight, not tapers. Fly casters of different abilities using the same rod cast better with different line weights. Today's line makers and marketers widely ignore traditional line weight categories and label their lines as they please. Many fly line marketers exceed the advertised "weight" of their line, e.g. - in reality their "6 weight" line approaches the weight of what would be a traditional eight weight line. Why not just state on the fly line box the REAL weight of the fist 30 feet of fly lines in grams? A rational [versus financial] fly line classification system might well encourage more anglers to take up fly fishing AND keep at it. Individual rod builders would benefit also by rejecting a vague, confusing method of matching fly rod to fly line, which would in turn increase the casting success of their end-users.

Agreed. Of what value are objective values (numbers) if they are untrue?

Fly line weights are standardized, they are measured in "grains" (not grams) and are based on an AFFTA approved specification that lists a range of grains for the first 30' for each line weight.

Fly rod manufacturers, on the other hand, are not restricted by the AFFTA specifications. They put what they deem to be the best line rating on the rod. The rod's rating will be based on the weight of the line that best "loads" the rod. If the line is too light, the rod will not load and is very difficult to cast effectively. If the line is too heavy, the rod will not release adequately, again affecting the ability to cast effectively. There are some rods that can handle a wider range of line weights, and many experienced flycasters will "overline" their rod by one weight (if their rod will handle it) to achieve greater distance.

A rods taper will also affect the line weight a rod can cast. The faster the taper, the narrower the band of grains the rod will cast effectively. This is caused primarily by the last 1/4 (or less) of the rod's ability to handle the line effectively, with the balance of the rod essentially providing length (leverage) and fish-fighting reserve. A "Slow" taper will cast a wider range of line weight as the entire length of the rod participates in the cast. The more rod involved in the cast, the wider the number of grains the rod can handle.

The ultimate responsibility is on the angler to find the "sweet spot" for their rod. Based on the AFFTA specifications,a 5-weight line's range is from 134 to 146 grains. If the angler has a rod rated as a 5-weight but their 5-weight line is at the low end of the range, say 134 grains, the rod may not "load" and will be difficult to cast. If they change to a 5-weight at the higher end of the range, say 146 grains, the rod may load and cast beautifully!

Here's a great article by Lefty Kreh about choosing line weights for fly rods >

[www.scientificanglers.com]

Again, why don't fly line marketers reveal the weights of the first 30 feet of their fly lines with a simple, precise statement of weight? It wouldn't take much space - eg. "280 grains" - and the buyer deserves to know the physical properties of the line he is buying: overall length in feet - not "several feet" - and the ACTUAL weight of the "head" (1st 30 feet) of the line in grams or grains, not some vague, meaningless term like "6 wt." has become. Fly lines "weights" are expressed in grains. Is there a legitimate reason to hide the weight (in grains) of the first 30 feet of a fly line? It would make selecting/buying the right (best casting) fly line for a rod more successful and easier than the current hodgepodge of vague generalities and wildly different actual "weights" of fly lines of the same advertised weight.

It may also help if they put out a list of lines that would work best with that particular rod. I think we are asking too much of some these rod manufacturers to actually use a standard. The consumer(s) will need complain more before anything gets done.

Phil. you are asking people who have no control over what you are complaining about. Contact the line makers. If, as Lance suggests, they get enough comments , they might do something about it. Seems like I remember seeing line weight on a line box, but don't remember for sure. My last few lines don't have it.

It is stated that line makers make their lines to spec, but how do we know that fly line makers are making their lines to spec? I have an 8 weight "Bonefish Shooter" that if I weighed it correctly is in the range of the 10 wt specs for lines. For a special line like that I would not expect it to conform to normal 8 wt standards, but in the 10 wt range? I just put an Orvis standard bonefish 9 weight line on the reel, and it casts lighter than the 8 wt Bonefish Shooter. (The rod, like most fly rods, has an ERN at the top of the 8 wt class).

A large segment of the fly-line market in our U.S.A. consists of fly lines made in China and shipped anonymously in bulk to the U.S.A., where they are labeled and boxed for packaging, distribution, pricing, and sale to American consumers. Unskilled and beginning fly casters are particularly vulnerable to advertising suggestions of the casting prowess which using a certain brand of fly line will provide them. Failure to reveal, on the box or on the spool, the weight, in grams, of the first 30 feet of fly line expedites the purchase of more fly lines and bigger profits I'll bet. Simply printing the weight in grams of the 30 foot head of the fly line in the box would solve/end a lot of problems finding the right fly line for the rod you use. The #6 wt., #9wt. etc. fly lines belong in museums with their "BCB" etc. ancestors.

Yes, you've said that before. What are you going to do about it other than complain here?

I will send a couple messages to line makers. Join me.

I figure that criticism on this site is likely to be viewed by many more line makers/marketers in the U.S. than an email sent to one person in one company. Business etiquette may be offended, but more business, many of them honest and eager to please buyers, are more likely to respond to and fix this problem than a one-letter-to-one-business-at-a time would be.

According to this article, you should be weighing your own lines at different lengths. Seems to make some sense to me. I don't believe any line manufacturer is going to weigh their lines at three different lengths which more than likely would confuse the issue even more. I don't think i've ever met a fisherman who bought products based only on a manufacturers claims. All new to fishing that i've met are asking people like builders or fisherman for guidance on equipment. I've never fly fished or built a flyrod in my life but if I did I bet I could get it done with the rod and a line choice given to me without going to a manufacturer for information and like the article said, I would measure or weigh the line myself so I knew what I had. Even if they gave the measurements people would still weigh the lines just to keep them honest so you just as well do it that way to begin with. Manufacturers offer the product and in my opinion it is up to the consumer to verify what works from experts like those on this site. The info is there. Life is too short to continually be crying about the small stuff. Just my two cents.



[www.onthewater.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/15/2022 05:19PM by Terry Kirk.

Phil, are you saying the "name brand" fly lines are made in China? If so, please advise which brands! As to my knowledge as a former supplier to USA line manufacturers, I no of NONE!

Phil, the makers may be viewing this site, might not. But the credibility of someone who takes the time and effort to contact the maker directly is much higher than that of a continual whiner on a rodbuilding site.

During a full day of fishing yesterday I presented dry flies to trout rising anywhere between ten and forty feet away. Breezy day with 20 mph gusts. High flows. Dealt with trees behind me, and trout rising tight to overhanging brush. I could argue that a third of the time my fly line was one line weight heavy, and a third of the time my fly line was one line weight light. It was my casting skills, how I manipulated my line and leader during the cast, that resulted in a successful day on stream - not the grain weight printed on a box back home.

"The greatest barrier to discovery is not ignorance, it's the illusion of knowledge" - Daniel J. Boorstin

Phil Ewaniki, you made the following statement! "A large segment of the fly-line market in our U.S.A. consists of fly lines made in China" I challenge you to present DATA to back up you claim!

Munching popcorn like I'm at the movies ...........

Providing facts which will be rejected out-of-hand is a waste of time. Check the box your fly line came in. If it doesn't say "Made in the U.S.A." on the box, guess What?

SA's website iclearly illustrates each line's taper and lists the head weight of the first 30 feet. Cortland does the same. Monic does the same. Airflo does the same. For years Rio always did the same, but recently seems to have stoped listing the head weight when they updated their web site. Orvis illustrates the taper but does not list head weight. Rio and Orvis should get back to listing head weights. All the lines of these six companies are produced in the U.S. except Airflo, which is produced in the U.K. By looking up the data of their lines I think one can pretty much get the taper and weight they are looking for. Orivs lines are produced in the U.S. by SA, and SA is owned by Orvis.

Blue Halo fly line tapers and the head weight of their 5 wt lines are listed on their web site. Cheeky line tapers are illustrated but head weight is not listed. Not sure where they are produced.

So David ..... what you're saying is ....... at least the way I interpreted what you just posted is, that it takes very little effort to find the kind of information you listed? And that if someone is complaining about this type of information not being available, that they are putting little if any effort into searching for said information. And instead, they are spending more time complaining about the aforementioned information not being available, than they are in actually searching out that information?

Why am I not surprised?

Not only does he spend more time complaining, he does it erroneously without any facts to back him up. It is all his misguided opinions!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/18/2022 09:53PM by Phil Erickson.