I have done some research and would like to confirm what I plan to do since this will be the first spiral wrapped rod for me. I have an 11 1/2’ steelhead rod that I plan to run the first guide at 0, then 60, 120 and finally at 180 degrees. Is it standard practice to run the two middle guides the same size? I see it done both ways but want to make the best setup possible.

Thanks,
Dave

David,
Is this going to be a casting rod or a spinning rod?

The reason that I ask the question is that I have found for the casting rods that I have spiral wrapped, I find that I need to offset the first guide 5-10 degrees off of zero in order to keep line stacking on one side of the other.

If I find that line is stacking on one side of the reel - during tests, I will slightly rotate the first guide in the opposite direction from the stacking in order to have a uniform line lay on the reel.

If it is a spinning reel, there is no issue with this and the 0 degrees on the first guide is just fine.

Remember, the 2nd and 3rd guides are just there to keep the line off of the reel. As a result, these guide should have their guide rings close to rod blank. Also, they do not have to be a very large size. i.e. typically smaller than a comparable standard wrapped rod.

Sounds like you have a good plan. By the way, your set up at 60,120 and 180 is the same orientation that I use on my spiral wrapped rods and they cast and fish very well.

Take care

There would be no need to spiral wrap a spinning rod. The objective is already achieved at the outset.

.........

David,
Your spiral wrap question will certainly provide NUMEROUS replies, so many so that you may very well be overloaded with information. Keep an open-mind, read and understand each reply and develop your own conclusions as to how to build YOUR spiral wrapped rod. There may be many ways to “skin a cat”, but there are MORE ways to spiral wrap a rod!!! Some methods proclaim to be simpler / quicker, others proclaim to be more efficient with a straighter line path, still others consider line-stacking to one side of the reel while others do not.
To me, the #1 objective is to achieve the straightest line path possible, both loaded (as with fighting a fish) and unloaded (as with casting). I also attempt to get the line to the bottom of the rod as soon as practical to reap the most benefits of the spiral wrap (the more guides on the bottom = the more stable it will be). The rotational position of my butt, second and third guides is unconventional at somewhere ABOUT 30*, 110*, 160*. This gets the line to the bottom quicker. The butt and second guide are positioned so that the line just misses (0.060in) the blank. I do not concern myself with the offset butt guide stacking the line to one side of the reel = if using a level-wind reel, 95% of the issue is eliminated; if a non-level-wind reel is used, the angler would need to “thumb” the line onto the spool anyway. I have found that the direction of the spiral wrap best if the angler has to PUSH the line across the spool rather than PULLING it for even line-lay.
So that is my simplified / abbreviated method of spiral wrapped guides. I like it and so do my customers. But there are a plethora of others. Good luck.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

I've never had a line lay problem, torquing, distance, or accuracy problem with the simple spiral. The need for an absolutely straight line path is, in my opinion, a non-issue. While logically obvious, it really doesn't seem to matter. If one really thinks it is an issue then he should be removing the level wind guide on his casting reel because it is causing a much more convoluted line path than any method of arranging the rod guides could cause.

Thanks for the reply’s! So on the second and third guides, when using 4 of them, are you reducing the guide size or keeping both of them the same size? I am seeing it done both ways.

If you are going to use the common Robert's/Revolver Wrap spiral (0-60-120-180) you can move from the butt guide on to whatever your smallest guides are going to be and stay there. Since the line will be against one side of the ring at all times, larger guides are not needed as most of the space within the ring would never be used. Also, you would typically complete the transition from top to bottom in about 14 inches.

...........

Thank you Tom!

Have there been any attempts to modify the grip on a casting rod reel seat so that the casting reel would retrieve the line below the plane of the rod blank, allowing the guides to be mounted beneath the blank?

Phil Ewanicki Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Have there been any attempts to modify the grip on
> a casting rod reel seat so that the casting reel
> would retrieve the line below the plane of the rod
> blank, allowing the guides to be mounted beneath
> the blank?

Yes, it was called "The Bass Handler." RodMaker featured it in an article some years ago. Novel concept and design, but the additional weight resulted in a failure to gain much market share and it was discontinued after a short time.

............

Hello All.

Vol/Issue-------------Article----------------------------------Author-------------------Page
11/2 Bass Handler. (Invented by Carl Fontenot). By Tom Kirkman. 18


Tight Wraps & Tighter Lines.

Bob,

New Bern, NC.

What if there was a casting reel with a spinning reel foot that allowed for a level wind on a casting rod set up with the guides on the belly of the blank?

Mark Brassett Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What if there was a casting reel with a spinning
> reel foot that allowed for a level wind on a
> casting rod set up with the guides on the belly of
> the blank?


There would be no way to thumb the reel spool on the cast. The reel would be below your hand.

...........

Mark is spot on about keeping the line path straight as possible. I usually use a Fuji RV 6 mm at 0 degrees for the butt guide then for the bumpers a KB 5 mm to a KB 4 mm (assuming it for 10lbs mono or less) and KB 4 mm at 180. I align the two bumper in a straight path to the guide at 180 degrees using 60 and 120 degrees as starting points, then adjust as necessary. You may need to change the spacing also in order to keep the line straight. Then it would be 4 mm guides (KB to Kt) to the tip with a 4.5 or 5 tip top to help pass knots or a small swivel that could get caught there.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/13/2022 03:41PM by Lance Schreckenbach.

Thank you

Not so fast, Tom. It could have a trigger much like the small Zebcos with a "feathering" feature incorporated. Pull the trigger, release it with the cast, feather it during the cast.

Those are typically called Uni-Spin reels. Already available.

..................

They aren't level wind.

If the goal is to have the reel under the rod, why go to elaborate measures to do it with a level-wind reel which would involve a number of cumbersome contrivances in order to make it work? Why not just use a spinning reel?


............

David,
You ask good questions that others, me included, may take-for-granted. For my spiral wraps, I have typically used a size 12 butt guide followed by 6s or 5s out to the tip. I suppose the size 12 is larger than required if one listens to Rich Forhan or Fuji’s suggestions and I can’t really argue. Since my butt guide is so offset, the larger ring (height as well) serves to provide a nicer nine path, especially on wider spools. But with its additional height, a RV-6 is probably one of the best butt guide choices for more conventional spiral wraps. From there out to the tip use as small of guides as you are comfortable with.
Often, those who argue that the line path of a spiral wrap is not important are the same ones who will point out that a typical running guide may not be perfectly inline with the others. So what’s the difference? While slight misalignment of a guide may cause minimal if any reduction in casting distance [www.rodbuilding.org] or ease of reeling a fish in, it only seems reasonable to provide the straightest line path, no matter which guide train system is utilized. If nothing else, it simply looks better and is an indication that care was considered during construction.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.