Hi all ... I've built a couple lighter casting rods, worming and drop shot. Now I'm going to build a 7'6" heavy Liberty blank for throwing 1/2 to 1 oz weight Carolina rig, 18lbs main line and my question is how the guide train should look . I think id like to start with a size 10 ( if that seems correct) and finish with # 5 runners and tip top. With this being a heaver outfit how many double foot guides and can I use single foot runners , if so at what point do I change. Thanks for any and all suggestions. Mychael

Mychael, I can tell you what use if that will help. I use a 12 and 10 double foot, an 8 single foot and the rest 6 single foot and 6 tip top. I find that sooner or later, the customer will use it for frogging or flipping, etc. and may use a knot from main line to leader - therefore the 6's help it pass better. That being said, I've also built rod that heavy and long with 1 #8 double foot followed by 8 SF size 4. Always best to tape on the guides and try it out and then adjust. Also - I think a spiral wrap would augment the performance of the rod you and technique you described. Hope this helps. Cheers!

Were I doing this I would use KW-10, 5, 5, 5, then size 5 KB's to the tip.

If using a low profile casting reel, I would use a KW10, to a KW5.5, then to KB/KT 5 runners and a matching LG tip top. I would use 10 or 11 guides total, with three or four KB5 runners.
Norm

The RV6 is my Fuji choice. My rods with them all cast really well. By comparison, maybe only 25% of my rods with 10 or 12 sized first guides compare in performance.

In general, what impact does the target species or the amount of weight being cast have upon guide placement?

To me a Carolina rig guide train needs to be as sensetive as it gets and I just don,t consider the k guide a sensetive guide by design..on all guides the leg of the guide carries vibrations that the line gives to the ring down to the foot..k guide legs are long and very loopy and inefficient while single foot L guides are short and much stiffer, a better transmitter of vibration..

I suspect every rod builder would like the most sensitive rod possible, but does one brand/model of guides and one guide placement provide the most sensitive rod (not guide train) for all brands and models of rod blanks? I have been awaiting a post which reveals this information.

I'm kind of old school, so all but one of the casting rods I've built have three double foot guides as the "reduction train" I use Fuji guides. Either KW, or LN, but the guide sizes are the same. I got with a KW / LN 10, followed by an 8, followed by a 6. From there I go to the running guides. If I am using K series guides I'll use one or two KBs with the remaining guides being KTs. If I am using LNs then I use the L guides that Ben mentioned, in whatever size runners it is that I am using.

The last casting rod I built, I built using the guide layout that Norman mentioned, and it casts very well. And is lighter than the guide layout that I laid out above. The lighter the guide train the better as far as sensitivity goes. I just predominantly use the 3 double foot reduction guides because I am old school. The choice is yours.

As far as what Ben laid out. While sensitivity on a Carolina rig rod is important, I personally don't think it's as important as Ben makes it out to be. Sorry Ben.

I fish a Carolina rig a lot. I would say it's about 50/50 between actually feeling a bite, and just feeling added weight when you go to sweep the rod to move the bait again. When you sweep the rod to move the sinker / bait, the bait is still moving forward after the sinker stops. It may not be moving much further forward, but it's still moving when the sinker isn't. That means you've put slack line in the leader. That slack means you might not feel the fish take the bait. You may just see your line start tightening up as the fish moves off with your bait. Kind of like when you're fishing a weightless Senko. Or you may feel the weight of the fish once you go to sweep the sinker / bait, forward again. Or, and I love when this happens because most of the time it means the fish has buddies with it .... the fish will almost rip the rod out of your hand as it tries to get away with the bait before its' buddies can get it.

Anyhow ..... I don't know that the L running guides add any more sensitivity compared to KT running guides. And as far as the weight thing I mentioned earlier, I just weighed 7 #4.5 L guides, and 7 #4.5 KT guides, and my scale shows they weigh the same. 1 gram. I've used both and like each of them equally well, and can tell no difference in the rods' sensitivity with either guide.

Oh and I should mention that I have taken to using 65# braid as the main line when I Carolina rig, because as Walt pointed out above. at times I use my Carolina rig rod to fish hollow bodied frogs.

I know all KB'S might be overkill, but they're not that big, and offer the larger foot. I agree with David on the sensitivity issue.

Hi David, don,t be sorry..we are all allowed to have an opinion,,thanks for giving the guide weights,,it,s surprising to see just one gram for seven guides in my favorite size..thanks.

I suspect this is why Torzite isn’t available in stainless steel frames. Under a choice scenario, the weight savings of the titanium wouldn’t be compelling enough to sway many freshwater fishermen towards the much pricier option. The performance/value Alconite ceramic options seem to be getting more limited, too.

Ben, the reason I used the words "on my scale" is because I don't have an expensive scale. It supposedly reads down to 1/10ths of a gram, but I have yet to have it register 1/10ths when in grams mode. And I have actually tried to get it to do so, with no success. lol My guess is that the those guides weigh somewhere between 1 and 2 grams.

And I didn't want to make it sound like I don't like or use a sensitive rod when Carolina rigging. I also use my Carolina rig rod for fishing jigs and T rigs, as well as a hollow bodied frog. I was just sharing my thoughts on how the slack in the leader of a Carolina rig can make it tough to feel the bite at times. Of course there are times I don't feel the bite when fishing a jig or T rig, but it isn't nearly as often as it is with a Carolina rig.

Good stuff

I once had a scale that weighed in grains also but I can,t keep a.scale,nthey keep walking away..lol?

Look up toward the crown molding, maybe they scaled the wall.

I understand the lighter the rod the more sensitive it is - which we all desire. But I can't find a chart of which guide placements yield the most sensitive rod. Should I take into account the action or stiffness of a rod blank, or is one guide spacing ideal for rods of all actions? Also, is there any way to use numbers to measure the sensitivity of of a rod or must we rely upon opinions and words like "very" or "medium"?

Phil, put some braided line on..your sensetivity problems are no more, no matter what,where, or how many guides..if you must have numbers measure the natural frequency..



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/17/2022 03:30PM by ben belote.

Thanks, Ben. It makes sense that the line, not the rod, is the source of sensitivity - since it is the only connection between the angler and the fish.

Phil, those are fightig, words on this site..lol.

Unless the line is stretched taut by trolling or reeling in your line then your rod - with its leverage magnifying movement at the hook end - will probably transmit the first hint of a bite/strike. If you bait fish and hold the line taut on your finger then the sensitivity of low-stretch braided line is just the ticket.