I'm waiting on the delivery of a PB 7'10 XXH. And I was wondering what guides I should use. I'll be using a Lexa 400 or an Accurate Tern 300 and 40lb braid throwing 2oz flairhawks and won't need to cast a knot through the guides. I fish heavy drag and horse fish away from the bridge/fenders. I was thinking of using the Fuji KW in SiC. But I'm not sure how many guides or what size. I'm set on going with Fuji guides. And I like the extra durability of double foot guides and will not use the rod to impart any action on the lure just a steady retrieve with a pause occasionally. Thank you all for any help you can provide me.

The same ones you would use on any other mag bass rod. They are plenty strong for your needs.

Ok I'm not sure which guides those would be. I've never built a bass rod and have very little freshwater experience.

Go to the AnglersResource catalog and look at their recommendations for the line you plan to use.

[anglersresource.net] Page 5

Looks to me like KL25h KL12h KL7m followed by runners of your choice. I would go KB's all the way out in size 5.5, or 6mm, probably 6 of them will do it with that stiff rod. Might want to buy an extra just in case, though. I would not go smaller as there is no advantage to it and if you do decide later to run knots through the guides they will most likely clear with 5.5 or 6's.

You can also email AnglersResource and ask their opinion. They have certainly built some of these and can rcommend guides.

Norman Miller, what is your opinion?

Another possibility for heavier duty guides would be to build it NGC with KL reduction guides and KB runners.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/08/2022 09:10PM by Michael Danek.

Sorry Michael I should of also stated it is a casting rod I'm building. The Lexa 400 is a saltwater low profile reel and the Tern 400 is a star drag conventional reel. But I have built some spinners with the KR guide train running KL-H guides and love that set up. I'm new to building casting rods however.

Tyler, I know what you are doing, what those reels are capable of, and what a big snook in heavy current is about.

You should really consider acid wrapping the rod. You will use less (and smaller) guides and only a couple/few "need" to be double foot. The main advantage is the control you will gain over the fish when you are no longer having to expend energy keeping the reel upright. It is going to look wrong, but you will get over that in a hurry on rods where you fish enough drag to appreciate the difference it brings.

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

Oh, got it. This just got a lot easier. Agree with Russell on "acid," search the forum for "simple spiral". Easy peasy and will work just as well as other more complicated systems. I am not an expert at what you are trying but I expect LKW's for the double foot and Kb's for the single foot guides. The AnglersResource has a nice two line stress test tutorial that works well. The advantage of the two line test is that the guides don't load the rod so that they stay put when the rod is stressed, and they can be moved without unloading the rod.

Tyler, I’m not very familiar with building such rods, so I will pass to someone who builds and uses these types of rods and reels. It should be mentioned that the reels being used are high profile and will will hold over 300 yds of 30 to 40 lb braid, therefore the stripper guide will need to be relatively high in order to keep the line off the blank. Since I have no idea how high the reel are I would only be guessing on the stripper size needed However, I do think that KW guides are more than strong enough to handle what you want to do. In fact, after two or three KW transition guides, I think that KB/KT runners, in the size of your choice, would work quite well and would also remove some weight from the tip section. As far as the number of guides needed, I would probably use 10 to 12 guides total. Finally, Something to seriously think about is to place the guides in a spiral wrap configuration. Doing so really does remove rod torque when fighting big fish. I hope someone more experienced than me with these types of rods will chime in. Good luck.
Norm



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/08/2022 10:12PM by Norman Miller.

I've always wanted to build a spiral/acid wrapped rod so you guys are seriously tempting me to go that route! Does a spiral wrap affect casting distance? Most spiral wrapped rods I've seen are for bottom fishing or chunking for tuna.

I'm hoping Jim Ising will chime in as I know Point Blank is his business.

How would a casting reduction train generally go size wise? I figure the butt guide need not be that large as the line is coming off the spool in a relatively straight line and the line is already quite manageable.

And I will go and study the "simple spiral"



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/08/2022 10:35PM by Tyler Reinert.

I'm only seeing a 7.5 foot XXH from PB. Rated 17-30#. I'd go down to the 300 size Lexa/tranx/kimodo size. You aren't looking at long runs.

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

CPB7101XXHM
Length: 7ft 10inches
Weight: 3.4 oz
Lure wt range: 1/2 - 2oz.
Action: Moderate (63-degrees)
Power: Double X Heavy (IP = 1209 grams)
Tip size: 7.5
Butt diameter: 14.60mm

Hey Russ here's the details on the blank. And I've got a Lexa 400 and a 300. The 300 has nowhere near the torque that the 400 does which is a gamechanger when retrieving heavy jigs in current. I'm also not at all confident in the 300 size holding up under heavy drag. I'm really waiting on the Accurate Tern 2 to come out this year and that will be my top choice for this rod.

To answer what I can: "Acid Wrap," whether simple spiral or some other system will not affect casting distance based on what others have posted and my own experience with a couple of them. The simple spiral is a piece of cake to set up and works very well. As Russell stated, it makes a lot of sense for heavy/powerful rods like this.

I repeat my earlier statement about using KB's all the way. There is no weight incentive to argue for KT's, and their foot is significantly smaller than KB's, and logically they would be weaker than KB's. I'm not saying for sure that KT's won't work OK, I'm just saying that I see no reason to take a chance.

As mentioned earlier, height may be as big an issue as size, but rods like this have been made for many years without using high guides.

If you decide that higher than KW guides are needed take a look at the RV-H or the LC guides. I think heights are listed in the catalog.

I think any ring size about 10 or above would work for the first guide, second a little smaller, work from there..

I’m sure a KW butt guide will work for your rod, it’s just a matter of which one. Since a KW10 stripper is commonly used for bass rods which are usually outfitted with low profile casting reels, it may be a little too low when using a larger higher profile casting reel, such as your Accurate tern, I think either a KW12 or at the most a KW16 would probably work as a butt guide since they are both higher than a KW10. It is even possible that the KW10 would work. I just don’t know which one would be the best. I do agree with Micheal, in that the KB guides are sturdier than the KTs and thus may be more suitable for a heavy duty rod.
In my opinion, spiral wrapped rods cast extremely well, much better than most would expect. When I do a spiral wrap I like to use three guides to get to the first bottom guide, i.e., 0 degrees for the butt guide, about 60 degrees, then about 120 degrees, and finally 180 degrees. I like to position the guides to get a straight line from the reel to the first 180 guide. I just like the looks of this setup and it casts well. However the simple spiral also works very well and is quite easy to do. I like the guides to spiral on the handle side. This keeps the guides off the deck when the rod is laid flat with the reel handle pointed up. Others like to spiral opposite the handle because it gives a more balanced look. Choice is certainly yours. It’s easy enough to mock-up the guide layouts and do a casting test to determine what you like.
Norm

I can see the wisdom in the Lexa 400. Just felt it a little big/heavy for that blank. But you have the blank in hand and I don't.

The common suggestion on a simple/bumper type acid wrap is to lay it out like a conventional setup, then flip all the guides, except the butt guide, to the bottom (180 degrees). Then add a bumper guide halfway between the butt guide and the next one up at 90 degrees. I'm not going to argue just tell you what worked for me.

You need the (double foot) butt guide to be tall enough to keep the line off your hand when you are grasping the fore grip. The guides on the bottom can (should?) be the same size and placed like you would for a spinning rod. I'd think a 12 to 16 size butt guide and 6 to 8 size running guide would likely due. @#$%& to build thinking no leader only to find braid and barnacles don't get along so 8 might be safer (consider other fishing opportunities with this rod too). Single or double foot for the running guides are up to you. You won't break single foot guides from fishing so don't worry about that.

I found it worked best for me to use a single foot "fly rod" style guide for the bumper at least one size larger than the running guides. You want the line path there really close to the blank and the loading to only push it towards the blank (no side loading). I had used a double foot and had to change it.

At rest the line path might not look ideal but with a well done two line static test you should see the line path straighten out and progressively load. Be prepared to move things a bit after test casting. I found I needed to move the butt guide out a good bit to get it casting right. With a decent load on the blank the line shouldn't be touching the bottom of the butt guide anymore (assuming some bend down into the butt).

FWIW I went as far as to completely wrap the guides on for test casting (but no CP/epoxy) and still managed to rip the guides off the blank. My first casts were dismal. I had used too small of a butt guide and placed it too close. IIRC I ended up with a 12 butt guide (actually it looks like it is a 16), 10 type F bumper, and all 8's running guide. They were all double foot besides the type F.. Reel was a Penn 525 mag.

Suggest you consider a trigger type reel seat, a (ball?) gimbal, and fighting belt. Long fore grip too. This same rod could see use for tarpon, cobia, kingfish, and dolphin. All said and done, I'd want to be able to reel down on a five gallon bucket, with 3 gallons of water in it, and lift it from a balcony (don't high stick and do wear safety glasses). I doubt you are going to do that with the butt under your armpit and palming the reel. IMHO if you aren't trying such experiments you are leaving a lot on the table. Pays to know where things fail at and to engineer in the weak link where you want it. Maybe PB will tell you what it can dead lift if you ask politely and promise to keep it private.? Some have for me.

Wishing you all the best brother. Been a long time since I targeted snook because they became endangered. Are folks catching 30#+ snook these days?

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

You guys have given me a ton of information and I greatly appreciate it. I feel confident in pulling off a spiral wrap now. I'll bring everything with me to mudhole and eyeball the guide sizes required. I'll definitely tape the guides In a number of configurations and see what the results are and go from there.

And I certainly agree Russell that this rod could cover a wide variety of uses from cobia to Mahi and chunking big mangroves off shore! I haven't been to keen on trigger reel seats but I will put one on temporarily with tape arbors just to see how it feels. I'll definitely go with a long foregrip as I snook jig from a chair on the deck of the boat and prop the foregrip on my knee. And I do throw leader I just don't cast it through my guides just a 3' section of heavy fluorocarbon with an FG knot.

What fly rod style guide did you go with for your bumper guide?

As far as 30# snook go I wish! I'm in New Smyrna and we have alot of 30"+ fish and some 40"s and lots of 45"-50" reds that like the jigs and swimbaits I throw. Gotta go down to sebastian or further south to find the giants!

I don't see how an Abu 6500 size reel like the Lexa 400 on that blank would be a problem with a 12 stripper guide, been done for decades. I would probably steer myself toward a 7 mm running guide set, they worked well for me when I lived in Florida. Don't think you would feel any difference in performance with that power rod.

My fishery was vastly different. Check youtube for "snook fishing Florida spillways" to get an idea (and to see why I questioned if your blank was up to the task). It was primarily land based fishing. Terrible access, swift water, and a ton of stuff to get cut off on. You really had to muscle/control the fish. The other main areas were around dock/bridge/pier pilings. A bit further up north, like Sebastian, they were fishing inlets with a lot more open water and go lighter in the tackle area.

I think the fly rod guide I used was a type "F". These days there should be better choices. The Fuji KB/KT might work nicely. Main thing is getting the bottom of the ring as close as possible to the blank. I suggested the trigger seat because for my fishery, sometimes you were forced into quick one handed casts with heavy live baits with slime covered hands:)

Given the multi-purpose potential I still like the gimbal idea. Check out the perfection ball gimbal. FWIW matches up on O.D. perfectly with slick butts and color match is great on PacBay channel lock seats.

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

Thank you I'll look into that Gimbal and those pacbay reel seats.
The snook fishery up here is mainly bridges in 20' of water or so on hard outgoing tides around the New/Full moon throwing 2oz flairhawks or bucktails close to the fenders then sweeping them back through the channel. Same technique hooks us up on alot of bull reds and tarpon as well. I've fished sebastian and your right about those guys going light tackle and letting the fish tire out in the current. And I've seen the spillway fishing in SF and I believe the PB XXH would be up to the task. I compared it to my MHX Nearshore 8' 15-40 which is in the same class and it feels like the PB just has a bit more power and is at half the weight! And the MHX nearshore is capable with cobia and other hard fighters.
Looking forward to putting some fish on the PB unfortunately the reel I'd like to pair it with won't be available for another month or two.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/11/2022 11:26AM by Tyler Reinert.