I saw a video of a guy - tournament long distance caster - who wanted to keep his rod as light as possible (to minimize altering the blank's action) and make his guides easy to replace (he breaks quite a few). He used thread color preserver on his thread wraps. That was it. No epoxy. A rod building industry expert in the video endorsed the practice, stating that using color preserver alone was totally adequate, even for fishing situations.

I have no experience whatsoever with color preserver, but I liked the sound of this solution. Does it sound viable to you? Does color preserver seal and harden the thread? Will it come off the blank cleanly if I have to remove/reposition a guide?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/26/2022 10:55PM by Matthew Tuers.

Matthew,
Boy, that’s a loaded question destined to draw replies from even those who might normally refrain. When one looks at it logically, the numerous winds of thread holding a guide in place far exceeds the required strength required, so in that respect, no “coating” of any sort is needed. However, the starting and ending tags of thread would be vulnerable to be pulled loose from their securing over-wraps without some sort of “coating” applied to retain the threads. In theory, CP (an acrylic) would seem to be adequate, but personally would not trust it in lieu of typical thread epoxy or even PG (an urethane). For the minimalist rod builder, PG is as thin of a coating as possible and I would trust it to secure my threads over CP, but that is just my opinion. With that said, nonetheless I trust my minimal UL wraps to light versions of epoxy.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

I gotta agree with Mark...even the most minimalist of rod builders will coat it with something.
Any kind of fishing rod with a CP only guide is destined for eventual repair.

If you want light weight but still provide long-term protection, use PermaGloss. Two or three coats looks like a thin application of color preserver, but it's going to wear like iron without the weight of epoxy.

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Matthew

Its hard for me to believe that, that many guides can break under normal fishing conditions. May be I am lucky I never had a guide break while fishing.

However, to answer your questions;

It sounds viable, but to me it's not practical. As Chris said "Any kind of fishing rod with a CP only guide is destined for eventual repair".

CP will stiffen the thread.

CP can be removed readily and will clean up easily.

All I can add is that this is a classic example of custom rod building. The rod is assembled to suit the particular needs of the user which in turn gives him satisfaction and confidence..

Have fun


.

I would think of thread finish in the same light as sun block. You put sun block on to protect your skin. You put thread finish on to protect the thread.

IMO, if someone is breaking guides so often that they need to compromise the durability of their guide wraps in order to facilitate easier replacement, then they need to stop doing whatever it is they're doing that is causing the guides to break so frequently.
,
As for the "rod building expert" endorsing the practice and saying that CP is totally adequate, even for fishing situations. I'd have to wonder if it was an actual endorsement of the practice, or simply a statement that it will work. There's a big difference between the two.

I have never thought of epoxy as sun block, not sure it is in anyway, the UV inhibiters are added the keep the epoxy clearer longer, not to protect the thread as far as I know. If you really want to keep,your thread colorfast longer, don't use nylon thread. Every sailor knows there are many shortcomings and don'ts in using nylon lines and sewing enthusiasts know polyester products like Fuji thread are much more colorfast.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/27/2022 02:10PM by Spencer Phipps.

It definitely works and it does make it much easier to remove and replace a guide if need be . If the user plans on replacing or altering guide placement regularly it's an excellent solution . I've gone with this method myself and the guides are still rock solid and don't move at all unless you really force them with your thumb etc..

I would go with Permagloss as mentioned or a light coat of epoxy for the long term if the user doesn't plan on regularly removing and replacing guides however. Guides can easily be removed if needed even with epoxy and applying CP before an epoxy topcoat will make guides even easier to remove if need be. CP does indeed greatly tighten up thread wraps but it's main purpose is to prevent color fading with nylon thread .

Matthew, can you provide a link to the video?

[www.youtube.com]

Thx Matthew.

In the original post one significant thing was mentioned -

"need to frequently change guides"

So this individual was not concerned about longevity of the guides on the rod.

This individual is also not concerned about rod wear or long fights with big fish.

He has only one need. The ability to cast a casting weight a long distance with the best rod / guide combination and one that has the least amount of weight.

For this purpose - CP will stiffen the threads enough to make it unnecessary to do anything else with the guides.

As a matter of fact, by adding any sort of other glue in the form of perma gloss or epoxy thread finish actually defeats his over riding need of being able to frequently change guides.

Right , Roger.

I've never thought of epoxy as a sunblock either Spencer. I think of it as a protectant. Just like epoxy is a protectant for the thread. Figured the connection was pretty evident. I guess not?

LMAO

UPDATE: So I went ahead with the color preserver-only wrapping experiment... size A ProWrap nylon thread with one coat of color preserver fixing double-foot guides (size 12 through 30) on a 14' heavy graphite surf blank. Two practice casting sessions and a two-day long distance casting tournament later (throwing 4.5 oz sinkers), the wraps are in excellent shape and the guides are still rock-solid-tight to the blank.

For fun, I pulled wrapping off one of them and the thread was indeed stiffer and by no means fell loosely off the blank when cut and unwound. It was stuck on, almost like as if it had a light coat of epoxy. The residue on the blank dissolved and came off with 30 seconds worth of scrubbing with a rubbing alcohol-soaked rag. Like new, the blank was.

Final thoughts: If I ever get bored with colors or break a guide, it's a breeze changing them out. Color preserver dries in less than an hour, too. My only concerns are that the thread is exposed to damage if there are sharp object flying around, and after casting in the rain one day, the thread appeared to soak in a little of the moisture and caused a strange stinkbug-like odor. Could result in moldy wraps if you like constantly fishing in the rain, I suspect. Maybe multiple coats of color preserver is a solution.

I wrap maybe one rod every two years, so it doesn't make sense to have a drying machine or lathe. This makes epoxy even a bigger hassle for me, so I'm a fan of color preserver now.

This isn't new, I have vintage cane and bamboo rods that hasn't got varnish or epoxy on the guide wraps, it was only treated with CP

Yeah , you want more than a single coat of CP is you plan on continuing with this practice . Do two or three and wait until each coat is fully dry before adding another . When every inch of distance matters avoiding weight in any form especially on the upper half of the rod can and often does make a difference .

You also want to keep the wraps as short as humanely possible .

Thanks for reporting back.

If you’re not worried about longevity, why bother with wraps? Seems like an unnecessary pain in the rear if you’re going to be changing guides often. I’d just put them on with one coat of whatever epoxy/finish floats your boat sans the thread wraps.

First off, weight affects rod speed, not action. The rod will still flex in the same place it did whether you use epoxy or only CP. The additional weight of epoxy, if kept thin, epoxy isn't going to add enough additional weight over CP to make any measurable difference.

Yes, it is possible to use only CP and fish the rod per normal. But not for nearly as long as if you used epoxy. Are you planning to move the guides often? If so, use CP only if you like. If you plan to keep your guides in place for the long haul, I'd put epoxy or PermaGloss on the thread.

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