I did not want to derail the existing BFS post but am curious about BFS. I don't want to write it off as a gimmick just yet. Though here are my thoughts:

1. What problem is it solving? You can already throw finesse tackle on spinning rods. Spinning reels have good drags (if that is how you choose to fight fish) that compare to casters.

2. Mechanically it limits your casting distance due to spool resistance. Or does it?

3. Could it be a marketing ploy to sell smaller reels as a NEW and EXCITING platform? Phil? I may agree with you here. Shimano seems to be the front of this campaign. Is that correct?

4. Where would a casting outfit outshine spinning when using finesse techniques?

I am currently drafting a personal essay about the trends in fishing where social media and the likes have influenced the use of gear in bass fishing specifically. Spinning outfits are already the perfect platform for the finesse techniques. The social conception is that they aren't cool or macho enough in today's boat flipping camera induced bass world. Making a rod casting for finesse, at best only adds torque to the rod while fighting a fish. That is not a good thing.

I am willing to be open minded about this though. So please challenge my thought.

A.P.

you know the old mantra - fishing gear & tackle is meant to catch the angler - not the fish ;)

We're just seeing some stuff that I bet has came up many times show up again. Back in the 80's light line/ max line tension fishing for many species was a fairly large thing, both fresh and saltwater.
Give fish something different to look at and you up your chances, a long known fact. A smaller version of a known bait is an easier change up.

Spencer,

Isn't the point of BFS to present the same thing you would on your spinning outfit? A 1/16th oz Ned rig is not going to be any different under water on a spinning vs casting for example.

BFS is a way for American anglers to be like Japanese anglers. No companies are pushing BFS here, they are simply responding to consumer demand. BFS has been around in Japan since the 1980s. It was developed in Japan as a way to be more precise with small lures. Look on youtube for Japan trout fishing BFS and see the kinds of casts that can be made with a casting reel and a 5 foot fiberglass rod. Those casts cannot be made with a spinning rod. In terms of typical American usage, I agree that you can just use a spinning rod 99% of the time. But it was first invented for a specific purpose in Japan and now some of us use it either because we think it is more fun or because we want to look cool.

Many people prefer casting reels over spinning reels. I know a number of bass and inshore fishermen who will not use a spinning reel because they are out of their comfort zone, These new small BFS reels are designed to cast very light lures, and they really do cast light lures very well. In addition, they are usually lighter than most spinning reels, have a very good drag, and are less prone to line twist. It’s basically a matter of what you prefer or like better.
Norm

Just as the building style of Rich Forhan has greatly influenced what a typical freshwater fishing rod looks like today through years of tinkering and trying to develop the right tool for the job, BFS is a similar culmination from the reel enthusiast side. Anglers like the late Craig DeFronzo originally from Long Island and Ron Yurko from Ohio made reputations and careers (granted they aren't household names) by presenting very light jigs precisely in locations others struggled to reach using casting gear 20+ years ago setting the table for what is available today.

For years, people have been polishing mating surfaces in casting reels, swapping bushings for bearings, bearings for higher ABEC rated bearings, sometimes with less dense bearing materials, lighter large diameter spools, etc. to decrease spool inertia and internal friction. As time has gone by and the physical qualities of the standard bait casting reel have come more in line to match the needs of years gone by, anglers have been able to push those lure weight limits to the point where they now match what can be done with a spinning rod.

I am not a BFS guy, but I have tuned a few reels over the years and such. My interest in low powered casting rods came from the fact that off the shelf spinning rods for bass fishing did not jive with me. The standard 17mm pipe seat just didn't have the outside diameter I needed, even with small hands. When I would set the hook, I would feel a sharp pain shoot up more fore arm. (I've since rectified the issue with rods that fit me better ergonomically.) I found myself comfortable with casting gear, but the price of casting rods with the action and power I needed were well outside of my budget at the time. I turned to building rods. My first rods were high end blanks at the time to match with the techniques I used most. They are still the rods that spend the most time in my hands nearly 15 years later.

The benefits of a casting reel, such as having a lot of control over the line being let out by thumbing the spool leading to more precise cast control and softer entry into the water are still in play with BFS. Yes you can feather casts with spinning reels, but the level of control with casting reels is a bit better. In shallow water, the differences between casting reels and spinning reels and how the lure is presented is minimal, but there are differences. In deep open water where a vertical fall becomes much more important, spinning reels are the option of choice. This is a lesson that I didn't learn until I spent a year on large reservoir in NC. My casting rods proved to be a hinderance around bridge pilings and fishing on deep points and humps, so I added some similar actions and powers in spinning rods.

I really think some people just don't like spinning reels and they will do whatever it takes NOT to use them. I am one of those people. Baitcasters can also be modified heavily, and even built from components, which I do and I feel I get the best out of the whole experience. Are they harder to cast? They sure are, but you have the ultimate control if you take the time. Those reels used for BFS are modified pretty well to throw those light lures. I can clearly see why they are catching on. I think it's great, we did not have that kind of technology when I was younger and throwing light baits was next to impossible.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/2022 02:21PM by Fred Zimmermann.

Peter , Norman, and Joe,

Thank you for the insight. I can understand both sides of it now more clearly. I am understanding there is a preference of reel type, and after watching the Japanese use, the control side. I can see where flipping a Ned rig and controlling water entry could be beneficial in tight quartered pressured situations for example. With a spinning rod it is much harder to get that nice silent entry or correct a cast mid air.

Fred,

I agree that there is a modern stigma around spinning rods and bass fishing. I am sure a good chunk of the BFS craze is from people who left lighter presentations behind because they did not want to use spinning outfits. Now they have an opportunity while staying in their comfort zone.

In summary so far:

BFS is good for tight quarters casting control.

BFS is enjoyable for reel enthusiasts.

BFS is a viable alternative to anglers turned off to spinning outfits.

Peter, You best talk to people who have known anglers like Stan Fagerstrom before you say statements like that, he could do anything he pleased with any reel or rod and he proved it thousands of times in front of crowds. You put in the time, have decent hand/eye coordination it can be done. Throwing $400 at a $29.99 problem isn't my way, but tomeach their own.

I,m thinking where can I get one of those rods to put a spln reel on it..I bet an ul ugly stick would come close..just redo the guide train..ln number and size to reduce rod. Frequency..btw Stan like all trick casters loved low frequency rods.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/25/2022 09:05AM by ben belote.

Ben, if you can find a new old stock Batson SPG600, it would probably come fairly close. I don't think they offer that power any more. I built one for my daughter years ago as a casting rod, spiral wrapped to pair with a little Zebco 33. I'm not well versed enough in fly rods to recommend a starting weight, but I bet you could duplicate it very well with the top half of an appropriately powered fly blank, but you may need to extend it a few inches to make it long enough as I'm not sure you'll find a 10 footer in the right power to start with, but a 8'6" -9' rod would be fairly likely.

Good thread Aaron. Good comments all around here.

Four quick comments:

1. I don't see BFS becoming the dominant UL rig for wide-open waters as the spinning reel is easier to learn. BFS takes effort to master.

2. BFS started out on the expensive end of the hobby. However, manufacturers have started to drive the price down. China's manufacturers have been getting better and currently, there's a $75 reel that rivals some of the most expensive BFS reels in casting distance - the Tsurinoya Dark Wolf ULTRA that weighs 135 grams. . (They have a bunch of Dark Wolf iterations.) This is lighter than any credible spinning reel on the planet.

3. BFS can now cast down to 1 gram (a trout magnet) about 50 feet, supposedly.

4. There's a minor advantage to BFS over the spinning reel - you can use just one hand to recast, and more quickly than spinning reels where you have to use two hands, flip the bail open, cast, and then flip the bail close. I've fished next to some very good fisherman where the # of cast out is critical to maximizing catch due to the nature of trout being mobile in schools so when the school pass by, the fisherman wants to make as many cat as possible. I tend to take my time but the BFS guys reel in, and flip out a cast all in one motion that is beautiful to see. It takes just a split instant once the mastered the motion. I've had guys trying to help me catch more trout yelling at me, 'Cast quickly, cast quickly!' while I take my time recast with a spinning rig.

Ben, I'm not sure anyone would call the G Loomis SJR 700 a low frequecy rod, it was his favorite according to him.

IMO, the main advantage of a BFS casting set up versus a spinning set up, has got to be the lack of reel induced line twist. Spinning reels cause line twist, and line twist causes problems. There is little doubt in my mind that if spinning reels didn't cause line twist, you wouldn't see the kind of hate you see towards spinning gear.

Another advantage, and it's an advantage that any casting reel has over any spinning reel, is that it is easier to manage the line as it's going back on the spool during a retrieve with a casting reel. When you're retrieving light lures the line returning to the spool isn't under a lot of tension. Adding tension to the line between the reel and rod tip so that your line lays better on the spool, is easier with a casting reel. Couple line twist with slack line returning to the spool and you end up with a mess. I'd much rather deal with a backlash on a casting reel, than with the mess that can come off a spinning reel.

My guess is that spinning reel line twist is the reason a BFS casting reel was ever imagined in the first place.

People who think you only have good close quarters control with casting reels, that you can only get an offering low to the water and to drop lightly into the water wih a casting reel, etc. never spent much time with a spinning reel in their hands. Go to the Japanese Shimano trout fishing videos, or the Stan Fagerstrom casting instruction videos and you'll see how it's done.

People who think you only have good close quarters control with casting reels, that you can only get an offering low to the water and to drop lightly into the water wih a casting reel, etc. never spent much time with a spinning reel in their hands. Go to the Japanese Shimano trout fishing videos, or the Stan Fagerstrom casting instruction videos and you'll see how it's done.