Please read and tell me what you think.

I've built about 8 rods so far, and use syringes for exact epoxy mix. I have had absolutely no problems at all.

A friend was going on a short notice fishing trip and wanted a special rod, so I worked fast and took these shortcuts:

1. After applying a single, heavy coat of CP, I used a hair dryer to dry it. Put about 15 minutes into making sure it was dry.
2. After applying Flex Coat to the guide wraps, I used a hair dryer instead of "flaming" it, then warmed the epoxy from time to time for the first 3 hours to help it cure faster?

18 hours later, the rod was still a little tacky, but the epoxy seemed solid. I gave him strict orders not to fish with the rod that day, and to bring it into the hotel room that night so it could stay warm and cure fully. He obeyed these directions fully.

Two days later, he called and said the rod was GREAT. Mission accomplished! (I thought) On the way home the next day it rained, and the rod was left in the boat with the other rods.

Yesterday I stopped by to get payment, and I took a look at the rod. I noticed a bit of cloudyness around the guide feet. When I touched the guides, they moved! ALL of them! Where did I mess up?

1. Have any of you had this happen?

2. Do you think the rod was OK until the rain got to it?

3. Do you think the CP never cured and the rain made the whole under layer soften? (Despite the fact that it was 100% sealed with epoxy above and below the wraps)

4. Was it the fact that I used a heavy single coat of CP?

5. Did the hair dryer heat mess up the epoxy?


I've got the rod in front of me, and I can peel the epoxy off. The thread seems fine. What should I do?

1. Should I pull off the thread, and totally re-do the guides?
2. Should I add fresh CP, and re-epoxy the guides?
3. Should I simply re-epoxy the guides?

I thank you all for your continued help. Special thanks to Mark H. and Dick French for the GREAT deal on that Loomis blank!

TH

PS- The protective layer of epoxy above the foregrip seems perfect. That might indicate that the CP is the problem, since I heated it just like the rest. (there is no thread under that epoxy, just the blank)

I have had that problem once and it was with Flex Coat and I mixed it in those small plastic cups.. So I took rod and rewrapped the guides and mixed up flexcoat in those cups, and same thing happened, so then I started useing foil lineing the cups, and also I switched to Dura Gloss and I have never had that problem again.. I have seen 3 factory rods do the same thing.. Thanks Dave

Tony,

While I'm not an 'expert', something very similar happened to me.

I don't use color preserver at all, by the way.

I had finished wrapping the rod and had applied Flex Coat to the butt section one evening. This went fine.

The next evening, when I went to apply the finish to the tip section, I found that for some reason my syringes had become 'clogged' and were unusable. Rather than wait until I acquired another set, I tried to 'eyeball' the epoxy mix. The finish cured, that is it was smooth and it didn't leave a mark when I touched it, but it looked a bit cloudy and seemed 'soft', almost like a stiff rubber. It was obvious that the stuff hadn't 'adhered' to the blank or the thread, as I could easily 'wiggle' the guides.

What I did was peel it off. It came off easily in one piece after I carefuly scored it with an exacto knife. I just remixed some new finish and re-did it, and the rod came out fine.

My conclusion at the time was that it was the epoxy mix that was the trouble, but now that it comes up, it was VERY humid that particular day (102 degrees BEFORE it started raining....) and I wonder if the 'quick cure' then the humidity from the rain you mentioned might have been the culprit?

Anyway, the rod I re coated has held up fine, and I didn't do anything but apply fresh finish, albeit a few weeks later when the humidity was much lower.

Good Luck!

I have mixed my Flex Coat for 20 plus years using the plastic cups and had no problems, I also pour my flex coat into a lid linned with foil. Foil helps slow down the cureing time while working with it. I have also found that if you keep the tempture between 70 and 85 you should not have any cloudiness that could be caused by humidity unless you live in the south like Florida, Georga, etc. Dura Gloss LS Supreme does not have hazzines due to humidity and has a great uv protector. I hope this helps you. Good Luck Bob

Could my epoxy be bad???

After Davesrods reply, I re-epoxied the wraps,and left it in the turner. The wraps are still tacky. That was over seven hours ago in a 70 degree room.

I'm suddenly wondering whether or not these new bottles of Flex Coat are bad or something. Again, I used syringes to mix exact proportions and am mixing well. Come to think about it, I do believe that last rod was the first one from those bottles...

Should I contact Flex Coat directly if it turns out to be this batch?

TH

Well, yes ... i had been using "old" Flex-Coat" Formulas , and they DO get "Cloudy & Rusty-like" after a while.
The new improved formula gave me no problem so far.
Hope this HELPS !!!

Epoxy doesn't really go "bad", although it make turn yellow or brown in the bottles. It will still set-up and cure properly for just about forever. But you did many things that could each contribute to the failure you experienced.

First, color preserver is not the evil concoction that so many seem to think. I have built literally thousands of rods and nearly every one has used color preserver. Hundreds of these rods are very heavy duty offshore trolling rods that see use nearly every day of the year in truly adverse conditions and have been in used for almost 2 decades. The rods are bent, banged, scuffed, etc., but the guides are still secure and the thread, albeit with cuts and scrapes and assorted abrasions, is just fine.

You did quite a few things in an attempt to speed up the natural process of the various chemicals used to finish the wraps. An admirable attempt but obviously something went amiss somewhere. Having that rod out in the rain so soon after finishing could have had quite a bit to do with it, especially if the moisture was able to wick under the finish and into the thread (usually the cause of any discoloration). And, it is also possible that you did not get a good mix ratio on your finish which kept it from hardening.

Is the thread underneath the epoxy dry? What about the epoxy you peeled off the threads (something sure didn't adhere very well), has it hardened? There are lots of things that may have gone wrong here. Next time I wouldn't try to rush things and I'll bet you'll get better results.

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This is brand new stuff, just bought a week or so ago. Got the kit that came with both bottles and a pair of colored syringes to match.

Maybe I jumped the gun. I come back two hours later, and the epoxy is hard and tack-free. I'm going to give it a little extra time to harden, and then give it back to him for further testing... BOY do I hope it's OK this time!

TH

Tom,

I think you are correct about my rush being the culprit. Last night, the old epoxy was as others described, cured but able to be peeled off in a single piece. Kind of like soft plastic.

I have come to the conclusion that the CP was not fully dried, and the threads were damp when I put the epoxy on. Of course, epoxy is not going to bond to a damp surface.

As I stated above, this morning was a false alarm. The new epoxy is now hard and tack-free.

Again, thanks for everyone's help. No more rush jobs for me!

TH

I usually won't hand someone a rod for at least three days if I can help it, the flexcoat really feels to me that it takes that long to set up well. I once had a fly rod stick to its bag after being out in the heat after the finish had cured for 2 days!

No particular help here about soving your problem that isn't already mentioned. Only thing of interest is I also have used the plastic cups for mixing for a long time and no problems. The foil will certainly help for a bit longer pot life.

I know that recommendations for flex coat is not to used plastics or mixing syringes, stirrers, and containers with the contaminant of silicone. Maybe something in this regard to consider? Some sort of contaminant in the mixing procedure and high moisture sure wouldn't help in curing, I would think. I've never encountered this except the time I get rods to repair from a certain source that they only wrap the guides with tape and apply the epoxy (no thread!). This was a sure recipe for the guides to go flying the other direction with a serious cast.

my 2 cents.

Rich
Solyrich Custom Rods

But as Ralph has said and its been proven true very few plastic product that we might use contain silicone.
John

Plastic mixing cups do not harm epoxy rod finish in any way. They are often blamed for problems that lie elsewhere.

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