Hello to everyone.

I am not new to rod building though I have not built any in a couple of years.

The project at hand is building an 11’ foot surf spinning rod 3 to 6 oz. on and older used blank. The reel I have chosen is the monster Penn 10500. I plan to load it 50lb mono backing and 65lb power pro braid. This will allow for plenty of strength and length for those initial runs. I am considering a Fuji reel plate due to the large diameter (apprx. 29mm) butt section of the rod

I’ll be targeting sharks off the east central Fl. coast during the summer. This coming summer will be especially different seeing that my father passed away about a month ago. Before his mental and physical health declined, he used to love to sit with me and wait for the BIG bite. I miss him.

I have done some preliminary math and study about the New Guide Concept placement of guides and discovered that according to the formula (27 x the width of the spool face 3.375”) the choker guide would be located some 91 inches from the spool face. This only leaves around two feet for the guide train all things considered.

Furthermore, I cannot come to resolution on the type guides to use with so many choices, types and brands. It appears the Fuji K series is used on similar type store bought and custom rod set ups. But then there are various K series guides…KW etc….

I know the stripping guide may need to be taller due to the size reel I have and the running guides around 16 to allow for the flow of leader knots.

I would certainly appreciate anyones help and experience in getting me moving. Summer is around the corner and I want to be ready for my one week of shark hunting among the many beach goers and sun worshippers.

If there are other posts, articles and writings that would be beneficial please list them. I have read several articles from the library.

Thank you in advance for your kind consideration.

Forget about how much is left for the running guides. It might only leave an inch or it might leave 5 feet, that does not matter. The distance beyond the choke guide to the tip is immaterial and makes zero difference. It is the distance from the reel to the Choke Guide that matters.

Hello Jim.

vol / issue Article Author Page
7/1 Build: Surf Rods A Guide to Building Them. By Tom Kirkman, Mike Ballard, Neil Faulkner & Ken Preston. 22
18/3 Build: Surf Rods A Guide to Building Them. By Tom Kirkman, Mike Ballard, Neil Faulkner & Ken Preston. 24

I don't know if this will help much but you never know, I think they are the same article just re-printed or up-dated.

This is a CD full of different rod builds.

cover of task specific skills from rodmaker magazine on cd
Special Edition Task Specific Rod Building CD
$29.95


Tight Wraps & Tighter Lines.

Bob,

New Bern, NC.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/10/2022 11:27AM by Robert A. Guist.

Thank you.

Robert,

I have tried to find the articles you listed by the search option on this forum and by googling the titles. I can’t seem to find them. It could very well be user error.

Could you make a link or make a suggestion as to how I may find this information.

Thank you for your patience.

RodMaker magazine to the left in the sponsor list, select back issues, select Volumes 18, select Issue3, buy it.

Here's a direct link to purchase the issue about surf rod builds .


[www.rodmakermagazine.com]

Hi Jim,

I love building surf rods

Many guides that will suit your need at American Tackle like the Ti Forged. I have the MW50s on my 11ft surf running 50lb and 60lb mono leader. They are great, pass a wind-on FG knot no worries.

As for spacings there are basically a couple ways you could do it.

First off mount the grips and seat to where you want and is comfortable for you.

The 27x rules is a good starting point however your spool diameter is quite large. I find if the choker guide at around 1600-1700mm (27x2.5) from the spool lip is a good location for most builds. (just tape it on it may need to move)
Than mount the reel with the spool off. Take some mono or string and tape or loop around the spool axle. Run that line to the choker guide. Than place your reduction train guide in that triangle created with the line. Top of guide just feathering the line. Next step tape on all your running guides to the tip. Load the rod and check flat spots in the spacings (adjust running guides to suit)

You might need to adjust the stripper guide up or down slightly to suit the reel spool angle (most reels aren't 90 degs but more a more acute angle) I sight down this imaginary center line through the spool axis and adjust the stripper to suit. then the 2nd reduction guide and so on. Some reels like a Saragosa have a 90 deg spool angle and what works best is a really high frame stripper guide.

a video on youtube thats great is Lou Caruso - Surfcaster Journal. Over the years ive tweaked this concept slightly. However this will be a perfect watch for you.

its kinda hard to explain but hope it helps, after a while you just kind of know. Ive built so many surf rods its not funny. I've fixed poor preforming rods built by others and got them casting further.

cheers Bucky

Jacob,

Thank you so much for your response and direction it has certainly helped. I am researching the MW50 guide set and so far this very attractive.

With your vast experience in surf rods and there construction, would you share your thoughts concerning the Fuji reel seat plate approach?

I believe I have viewed the video by Lou Caruso, but it might help to view it again.

Again, thank you for taking the time to share your expertise.


Jim

Have you considered a revolving spool reel-and-rod set-up? You can cast as far as a spin-rod, line twist is not NEARLY the problem that spin rods face, the use of thicker, heavier line does not degrade casting performance, and revolving-spool reel drags usually out-perform spinning reel drags. On the east-central Florida coast your surf shark catch will be almost exclusively blacktips, and a blacktip nearing six feet in length is a rare monster. Too heavy an outfit will wear you out and turn fun into work.

Phil,

Are you suggesting an “Alvey” type reel setup?

jim

I think Phil is referring to a standard casting reel, which is fine for distance on surf rods. Most heavy surf set-ups are casting reel set-ups as they make casting very heavy sinkers and chunks of bait easier than spinning reel set-ups. They just handle the weight better.

..........

Just so, Tom. Jim: For middle-east-coast Florida sharks I heave chunk baits or live mullets weighing 3 or 4 ounces along with pyramid or "sputnik" sinkers often weighing another three or for ounces - enough to hold bottom. Such weights are tough on the index finger of spin-casters, and I far prefer using a star drag to a spinning rod drag on big, strong fish.

Phil,

If I decided to make the 11 footer a casting instead of spinning rod, what reel would you recommend?


Jim

Jim: I have been using a Daiwa Sealine X-30 for 15 years or more with pretty much complete satisfaction. Evidently it takes many years to "wear out" a casting reel when you're lobbing bait and the reel is not cast very often in a day. I have no problem whatsoever with backlash while lobbing bait - I put very little pressure on the turning reel spool with my thumb, then just clamp my thumb on the spool when the bait hits the water. Don't waste money on some whizz-bang anti-backlash-advertised reel.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2022 07:46PM by Phil Ewanicki.

Hi jim sorry for late reply.
Not a fan of plate seats personally, almost lost a reel into the drink. But Alps and Fuji both have one.

cheers

As for overhead vs spin reel. Almost all land based shark fishos are running big spin reels like Saragosa 20000 with a 25kg drag and with their ability to retrieve line fast with High speed reels gives shorter fight time with higher fish survival rate on release. Overheads dont have the drag that spins are producing now days. For Spin rods you can get those bionic finger line release things. I forget the Fuji name for them.
That being said im building myself a 14ft overhead rod haha I'll be running a Shimano Speed master. This will be for slide baiting.

Jacob,

Again, thank you for the information and guidance.

I think I’m going to go with spinning since I have already purchased the Penn 10500. I know most of the sharks I will hook are going to be in the 3 to 5 foot range. However, my father and I hooked some beasts, we assumed were sharks, that we never remotely slowed downed. These things broke lines, hooks, terminal tackle and made a drag scream like I never heard before. All this among sunbathers, body surfers and swimmers.

Again, your advice and knowledge are greatly appreciated.


jim

The only real downside to a spinning reel for heavy surf casting is that a hard cast with several ounces of sinker and bait will usually result in drag slip on the cast. There are techniques to mitigate this but it is one reason that you don't see many heavy surf rods made in spinning style. The upside is that spinning outfits, by virtue of having their guides on the bottom of the rod, are inherently stable which can be a big plus in use against large, powerful fish.

..............

Tom Kirkman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The only real downside to a spinning reel for
> heavy surf casting is that a hard cast with
> several ounces of sinker and bait will usually
> result in drag slip on the cast. There are
> techniques to mitigate this but it is one reason
> that you don't see many heavy surf rods made in
> spinning style. The upside is that spinning
> outfits, by virtue of having their guides on the
> bottom of the rod, are inherently stable which can
> be a big plus in use against large, powerful
> fish.
>
> ..............

Thank you for more clarification and obvious expertise.

jim