I am building a 7' Walleye rod ML/P Fast action blank & using the NGC suggested reduction guide set up is 16H 8H 5.5H because I have trouble with swivels ect passing threw the small #4 runners I would like to go with the #6KT runners what would I use in place of the KL5.5H reduction guide like a 6L? what are the disadvantages of going larger on the runners than suggested? or would going to the KT5.5 runners help me out with this problem and using the 5.5H reduction guide? am I the only guy out there with this kind of problem? LOL... any suggestions would be highly appreciated....Thank You!

You can only go as small as you can go. The correct guide sizes will be the smallest guides that will pass your required connections and hold up to the expected task. So if you can't get your swivels through a #4, then #4 is not the correct size for your project. If you need a #6 ring, use it. The only downside is a tad bit more weight and it would be minimal. Regardless, if #4's won't work well, don't sweat not using them. They're not going to do what you need to do.

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Ok Tom....can I still use the 5.5 reduction guide using the "6 runners?

Just use one of the #6's as the choke guide. The choke guide and first running guide are the same thing. So go from the 8 to the 6.


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You are not doing a NGC setup, but rather a KR concept setup. Try using a KL6L as your third reduction guide then to size 6 KT runners, or use the KL5.5M with KT/KB 5.5 runners.
Norm

sorry... the last of my reduction guides is a 5.5H can I use that with #6 runners? should the last of your reduction guides be the same as the runners? Thank you

Thank you Norm! you answered my question I was always told the last of the reduction guides ring should be the size of the runners or close to it in size correct?

Runners are usually smaller or at the most the same size as the last reduction guide. I just don’t like using running guides that are larger than the last reduction guide. That doesn’t mean you can’t do it, I just don’t like it. Looks funky.
There are actually more KR options available to you. [anglersresource.net] In addition, there is the option of doing a NGC setup, which traditionally uses larger size runners. There is also the option of dropping the swivel if you don’t need it. I rarely if ever use a a swivel, but many people do.
Norm

Glenn- the NGC does not specify particular guide sizes. You just plot the line path and use the reduction guide sizes that give you that straight line path. The running guides are also not specified under the NGC. I have used #4 choke and runners when I could get by with it, like a guy using braid on a popping rod, and up to #10's for the choke and runners when I needed those to pass larger line or shock leader knots on plugging rods. Try not to get locked into using certain stated guide sizes. Use what you need to use to do what you need the rod to do. When in doubt go out and cast the rod a bit with different sized guides and see what works best for you.

Do these swivels have to pass thru the guides on a cast? Or is this more of a line storage issue?

Could you use smaller swivels? Still, any time you have to pass swivels or split rings or split shot through a guide train you are bound to have problems.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2022 11:13AM by Phil Ewanicki.

I was wondering too as to why you want to run swivels through your guides.

Glen,
A very simple solution:

If you use swivels in your line, insert them as close to the terminal tackle as the rod is long. That way, you can reel up to the swivel, but no further. If you never put a swivel through the tip top or any guide you never have an issue with a swivel going through the guide.

For example, in my use of rods when I am walleye fishing, I tie the line directly to the jig, if I am using a lead head jig. If I am using a lindy rig, I use leaders no longer than 4 feet. If I am bobber fishing, I put the bobber stop where ever it is needed and no issue with the bobber stop going through the guides.

Note:
If I am going to be using a potentially larger obstruction on a line - I build a rod for this application with tip top and runners no smaller than #6. When I use a #14 swivel, it will nicely pass through #6 hardware.

If I build with a 4.5 or smaller tip top and running guides, I make a point to never have a bobber stop or a swivel in line with the line. If I am using a crank bait, I only use a swivel as terminal tackle and snap the crankbait directly to the swivel. No issue since the swivel never goes into or past the tip top of the rod.