I am always looking for a better tool than a Stanley Surform to round my cork on my FlexCoat lathe. The SureForm chews-up the cork something terrible. And if not careful will cut too deep
For those of you who do not have a wood/metal lathe and use turning chisels on a rest - consider buying a "Kutzall Wood Shaping Rasp".
I bought an 8" half round in Fine and a Coarse. The Fine seems to be the way to go. But I haven't tried it yet with a spinning grip.
Not cheap at $50 (ish). But I think it's worth it. Got it on Amazon. Will prob. return the coarse.
[kutzall.com]
Herb
CTS



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/10/2022 06:00PM by Herb Ladenheim.

I turn mine on a lathe and only use chisels when I need to take a lot off fast. I turn my cork on a high speed and mostly use a coarse bastard file that is flat on one side and half round on the other for shaping. That looks like it would also work but I am cheap Herb, so I make the file work. You come up with a method that works for you, that make you happy; and that is nice too. If it make it easier that is all that matters.

I've been thinking of building some custom cork grips, and I hadn't thought about using a surform tool to do the job. Thank you for the tip and opinion on which coarseness to use.

On a semi related topic ..... I had to turn down a couple of cork fighting butts today. The ones I wanted weren't in stock, so I ordered a couple others that had the same appearance, but had bulges at one end, versus being tapered like the ones I originally wantred.

As I didn't need to take all that much off, I just used 120 and 220 grit sand paper and a sanding block to accomplish the task. Final sanding was with 320 grit sandpaper. They turned out nice, but in the process some voids that were hidden prior to sanding appeared. I'm just curious what those of you that turn a lot of cork, use to fill such voids?

I see that the cork filler they sell at Mud Hole is just plain ole Elmer's wood filler in the golden oak color. Does that work well? Or have you guys found something that might work even better?

Any other tips on building cork grips would also be appreciated.

Thanks !!!

David,
The Stanley SurFoem is ONLY used to knock down the high spots in the grip to make it round. the grip is not round in the glued-up condition. I wanted a tool that was less aggressive than the Surform.
The Fine Kutzall will do nicely.
If you use the Stanley Surform - get the half round blade and cut just until high spots knocked down. Ohterwuse you will ahve a pockmarked grip from the SurForm.

I used to use a product called "PitPaste"
That has now been replaced by the Elmery Wood filler. It works fine.
Herb

Keep in mind that to get the grip concentric to the bore, you need to use a turning tool. A round nose scraper is the best way to do this and should be the first step when turning any grip. After that step, move to the SurForm or the Kutzall for sizing and then on to coarse sandpaper for shaping and finishing.

.................

For filler I use a combo of Elmer's wood glue max int,/ext., Elmer's golden oak filler int./ext., and cork dust. Sometimes a bit of added water. Sloppy mess PIA, works pretty well though. I make a lot of parts from premade grips and voids are a fact of life.

The exterior grade Golden Oak wood filler works quite well for filling cork pits. It’s easy to apply, drys quickly and sands easily. I normally give the grip a coat of cork seal to help hold the filler in place. I have also used a paste made from cork dust and exterior grade wood glue (Titebond) or epoxy. Both are very durable and will last as long as the cork, but requires a little more sanding to remove any discoloration cased by the glue/epoxy. You can try them on some cork handles from broken blanks to get a feel for what’s involved.

Herb, thanks for the Kutzall rasp tip. I also have used bastard files for turning and they seem to work quite well, but the Kutzall does seem like a good tool.
Norm

Norman,
I have used every rasp I could find including the Stanly half round 4 in one.
I'll try the both the Kutzall coarse and fine to see which knocks off the hi spots in the grip without leaving pits in the grip like the SurForm.

Tom, the FlexCoat Cork lathe, and other lathes that use a drill as power, do not have a support for a gouge like a legitimate lathe. So, we have to knock down the hi spots with a SurForm or a Kudzall.
Using a SurForm after the grip is round will be counter productive because it will leave the grip pock marked with deep holes that may not leave enough cork to totally eliminate the holes.
Herb

A very simple method is to use 80 grit sand paper with a backing board.
Inexpensive quick and reliable.

When, using the lathe and the tool rest, one can rest the board and sand paper against the tool rest and quickly insure that the grip is concentric.

Notice, I am not using the sand paper free hand. Its backing board is braced against the tool rest and the job goes very well and goes quickly.

With respect to fill.
As others have said, I exclusively use Exterior Elmers Golden oak to go over the entire grip - to insure that any and all pits are filled.
After drying for 30 minutes, I do a quick knock down with 120 sand paper, just to check to be sure that there is enough filler to fill any deep pits, if you have the misfortune to have them in your cork.

After a coat or two and the pits are filled, I will go over with sand paper starting at 120 and going down to 400 - very quickly.

Then, for the final clean up, I use the back side of plain sand paper for the final polish on the grip and it comes out very quickly and leaves an ultra smooth finish on the cork.

Note:
If I have to take a bunch of extra fill down very quickly, I use acetone or similar liquid to quickly liquify the filler to quickly knock off the high spots. Then, I will let the filler dry again, and go from there.

Best wishes.

p.s.
Often, during a repair of a rod, that has seen a lot of use, I will first go over the cork grips with simple green cleaner and a hand brush and a tooth brush to rid the cork of all dirt, grease and anything else.

Then, once dry, I will use the Elmers filler to completely coat the grip and fill any old voids. Then, I use my variable speed DC motor powered full length lathe and multiple rod rests to resist any sort of harmonic oscillation and destruction of the full length rod, turning the rod less than the harmonic vibration rpm. Then, I will use my usual method to restore the cork to a "new appearance" This is only about a 10 minute job- excluding waiting and drying time and the use of the full length variable speed rod lathe makes the job go quickly.

Best wishes.

I recommend that you value and follow every bit of Roger’s advice. He knows how to turn for shaping, finishing, and drying. He knows how to build setups for doing these tasks. His knowledge is the most solid I’ve seen in this area of rod building. It is congruent with woodworkers I know when there is overlap. Experienced turners use some kind of a tool rest when they desire concentric results, regardless of their medium. The only exception is when sanding already shaped, relatively hard pieces, with fine grit abrasives. You will have to rig a rest adjacent to your portable setup, but I think it is worth doing. Sandpaper on a stick works great for cork, when it is anchored on a rest.

Herb Ladenheim Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Norman,
> I have used every rasp I could find including the
> Stanly half round 4 in one.
> I'll try the both the Kutzall coarse and fine to
> see which knocks off the hi spots in the grip
> without leaving pits in the grip like the
> SurForm.
>
> Tom, the FlexCoat Cork lathe, and other lathes
> that use a drill as power, do not have a support
> for a gouge like a legitimate lathe. So, we have
> to knock down the hi spots with a SurForm or a
> Kudzall.
> Using a SurForm after the grip is round will be
> counter productive because it will leave the grip
> pock marked with deep holes that may not leave
> enough cork to totally eliminate the holes.
> Herb


Herb,

You'd only use the Surform for a brief time in order to quickly reduce diameter. I've used one for years and never had issues with leaving imperfections in the finished grip. The key is to know when to stop with the Surform and move on to sandpaper.

...........

Wow ..... a lot of great responses. Thanks guys !!! I truly appreciate the tips. Filling the small pits that I have to fill should be no problem, and I do have one old factory rod with a full cork handle that is in dire need of some attention, so Roger I will definitely give your process a try on that grip.

I'm going to be checking out Youtube for some videos of laying up the cork rings n such. I just have to gather the appropriate items to get started. I'm going to be using my power wrapper for the task. It's a Pac Bay wrapper but I've up graded it with the Alps chuck, so I think I'm good to go as far as the chuck goes. As far as a tail stock, I don't have one right now. When I have needed to turn anything I've just used one of the rod stands to hold the opposite end of the mandrel. I actually don't use a mandrel. I bough one from Mud Hole some time ago and that thing was no where near being straight, so I've been using pieces of old aluminum arrow shafts as a mandrel. It's worked great for what little turning I've done, but I know that I need should get an actual mandrel for building grips.

Any suggestions where I might get one other than Mud Hole? I've looked at various web sites for lathe supplies and I haven't seen what I am looking for. The longest grip I ever plan on making would probably be a max of 12" long. I also assume I should get a true tail stock with a live center. The one they sell for the Pac Bay wrapper looks ........... well. It may work, but it looks to be a little less than I think I might need. I see that Alps has a tail stock that looks pretty substantial. Does anyone have experience with either the Pac Bay or Alps tail stocks?

The Pac Bay tool rest they offer looks like it would be adequate for what I want to do. Thoughts or experience with the Pac Bay tool rest?

It has been years since I have done any turning on an actual lathe. Wood shop of my sophomore year in high school actually. So close to 50 years. Other than sand paper and sanding blocks I have nothing that I might need. I'll be picking up a couple of rasps and most likely one of the tools that Herb mentioned in his initial post, but anything else any of you might think I'd want to have, please let me know.

For now I'm just interested in stuff that are more or less essential to building just a grip or two. So if you don't think I really need a tail stock with a live center, let me know.

And once again, I want to thank each and everyone that replied to my question. I truly appreciate your help.

Getting off the subject a little,what`s the best way to shape down the cork handles on a finished rod. A friend of mine wants me to lessen the width of the cork grips on his rod

Peter,
320 grit Wet or Dry sandpaper.
Do you have a lathe - drill powered or otherwise?
Herb

Peter - You can easily reduce the diameter of a cork grip by hand sanding. Don’t let anyone say you can’t. I have done hundreds this way with no problems. Mask off the reel seat, any exposed blank, and possibly the butt cap with masking tape. Start with a piece of 100-150 grit sand paper. I use a quarter a sheet of sand paper, which I fold in half. Holding the folded sheet of sand paper in the palm of my hand, I turn the rod with my other hand while stroking and turning the sand paper up, down, and around. After a few passes, move to a finer grit, 220, and then to 320 to smooth everything out. It only takes a few minutes, and does a very good job. Just take your time, and make sure the rod is kept turning. The more experience you get the faster it goes. You’ll be surprised how easy it is, and how good the results are. The sanding may expose a few pit which can be filled as outlined above. Back when I started building rods over 53 yrs ago I did not have a lathe. I would glue cork rings to the blank and turned the handle down by hand, worked very well. You can practice on an old cork grip to see what’s involved.
Norm

Peter,
When I first started building rods, I took lessons at a rod shop who built every rod that they made by using cork glued onto the blank and then, putting the full length rod blank with the glued on grip and reel seat components and spun the glued up rod blank on a full length rod lathe.

After starting to build at home, I made my own full length rod lathe, but I wanted to turn the rod faster. The teaching shop has used a 1750 1/2 hp electric motor with one to one pulleys so that the spinning rod was turning at 1750 rpm.

However, I like to turn faster, and use lower grit sand paper with less pressure for grip turning, so at that time, I found a 3600 rpm buffer motor that I used for the base power on my full length rod lathe.

That motor is now in the hands of a long time rod builder and frequent user of this forum.

Even though the build up on the rod blank works very well, it is actually much more convenient to do the grip shaping on a mandrel that has been chucked into a wood lathe.

A very big advantage of doing the grip turning on a wood lathe, is that you can cut out a bad spot, if you have a mistake or an issue -- glue in new material, and continue the shaping with no loss or trouble to the rod blank.

Best wishes

Roger - The buffing motor with Chuck I got from you is still working great, and is quite handy for a number of small and simple turning projects using a short mandrel. Thank!
Norm

Thanks guys.I`ll try it by hand first

I save the "cork dust" I create shaping cork grips with sandpaper. Coarser dust made by sanding wine corks work even better. When I find an intrusive "pit" in a cork grip I use a sharpened dental pick to form a hole beneath the pit, a hole whose bottom is wider than its top opening. I mix a daub of flexible clear epoxy, then thoroughly mix cork powder into the epoxy to make a thick, cork paste. I use the little spatula to tightly pack the epoxy/corkdust mixture into the hole in the grip, pressing it into the hole with the flat end of a dental tool or knife - leaving a rounded surface of epoxy/cork SLIGHTLY higher than the cork grip. After the patch hardens I use sandpaper to sand the patch level with the grip. This results in a patch which is nearly invisible and will last longer than the rest of the rod.