Guide wraps are normally finished with epoxy, urethane, etc. Rich was simply concluding the article with the normal last step involved in any guide wrap - finishing. He was not indicating that it is epoxy that effectively locks the guide in place. If for some odd reason you did not wish to apply epoxy, the guide will still be locked firmly in place.

Very often, actual testing provides one with a lot more information than does arguing over ideas and theories. Sometimes it is a simple matter to try something for yourself, even in spite of what would seem to make sense or be the accepted wisdom.

So at the risk of insulting anyone, I'll just say that it is a simple matter to test all the various guide security wraps, either with or without finish, to a normally wrapped and finished guide. Then compare the holding power of any of them to the Forhan Locking Wrap (with or without finish) and you will see what you will see.

.................

I will try it.

And I can do it on micro guides or do I have to go bigger for the challenge?

And should I use real heavy thread too?

Which way should I skew the test?

I use the smallest micro guides and thinnest of threads and have zero issue with guides pulling out.

Tom Kirkman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Guide wraps are normally finished with epoxy,
> urethane, etc. Rich was simply concluding the
> article with the normal last step involved in any
> guide wrap - finishing. He was not indicating that
> it is epoxy that effectively locks the guide in
> place. If for some odd reason you did not wish to
> apply epoxy, the guide will still be locked firmly
> in place.

This will be tested in time...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/17/2022 06:23AM by Kent Griffith.

You may not have any issues with guides pulling out because you treat your tackle kindly. But if you build those same rods and sell them to bass fishermen you might find that a lot of guides are going to pull out. Many of these guys are terribly tough on their tackle.

You can use whatever guides you like. You can use any size thread you like. When you go to pull the guide out or off the rod, be careful not to break the guide or the rod blank. Since most guides that pull out of ordinary tests do so from a straight pull (hang on a rod locker door) you should attempt to pull the guide out that way. You won't be able to do it, so you might then want to turn and twist the guide although this would not be normal for most fishing situations. You will won't be able to do it, however, without breaking the thread or the guide. Now do the same thing with a standard wrap and as much epoxy as you like. You will see what you will see.

.......

Kent Griffith Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I will try it.
>

So all this time talking about the Forhan Lock Wrap and you have never actually tried it. Puts things in a different perspective.

Mike, I said I have done in the past and rejected doing it.

What I have not done is tried the Forhan wrap and then tried pulling the guide out with pliers and no epoxy.

All you gotta do is actually read what is written rather than what you want to get out of it to avoid comments like this one.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/17/2022 05:36AM by Kent Griffith.

I misread the tutorial, and rojo nekzero will be along any second to offer more ad hominem. Wait for it... its coming... they can't resist.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/17/2022 05:10AM by Kent Griffith.

Hello Tom.

He just wants to be a PITA, He said he wanted to leave, I say just let him go!


Tight wraps & Tighter Lines.

Bob,

New Bern, NC.

Kent,

Rich uses the 30 lb Gorilla Braid as the pull-out loop, not for wrapping the guide.

Just try it. Use A thread and try it. You will not be able to pull the guide out of the wrap without actually breaking something. Just try it.

...........

It is disappointing to try and discuss technical issues among so many artists... if only there was a performance-only situation instead, rendering more than 90% as useless as well as those offering.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/17/2022 05:32AM by Kent Griffith.

This is getting to be comical. Kent- many rod builders including myself use braided line for the tie off loop. Its slick and pulls easily from under the thread. It has nothing to do with the actual wrapping thread used. Just put a small ball or bead on the end of the braid so it will not easily slip through your fingers.

Kent in you case yes.

Bye

Bob,

New Bern, NC.

C'mon guys, just let him try it. He will see what he will see (and maybe some others who have also not given it a try). It's a great "tool" for rods that see harsh use. Very worthwhile.

.............

My bad on that one. Let's see if I or others can find the 10% as it surely is not on page 5 or any before.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 01/17/2022 05:37AM by Kent Griffith.

Over the many 100's of fly rods I have built, I have had two single foot guides pull out. Both were, rods I built years ago, before I started using the Forhan locking wrap. Since then zero pull-outs!

IT WORKS. And nylon it much stronger than epoxy coating.

Touchy egos make for interesting thread ! LOL

Howdy All,
I had no idea that a simple question would raise this much discussion. That shows me that this board is definitely worthwhile. With just this 1 “thread” my ignorance in rod building has been greatly reduced. From an old retired shop teacher who is barely past wrapping with a V notched shoe box, sewing thread, and 5 minute epoxy, I want to thank all of you!!

I'm not going to debate the effectiveness of the Forhan locking wrap. I've used it on two of the rods I've built. It's easy to do, and if you are extremely rough in the way you handle your rods, or your clients handle their rods, then I can certainly see why a builder would want to use it. And even strongly advocate that other builders use it.

The key to whether or not one needs to use it, comes down to what Tom said. If you or your clients handle rods extremely rough, and I do believe that it would take some extremely rough rod handling to cause a guide to pull out, then my all means, use the Forhan locking wrap.

Personally, I would hope that if anyone saw me handling my rods so poorly that a guide would pull out while getting them in and out of my rod locker, that they would push me in the water, and make me swim to shore to teach me a lesson. I've bent guides getting rods in and out of my rod locker, but in over 30 years, I have never had a guide pull out. For any reason.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/02/2022 06:15PM by David Baylor.

It seems to me that “locking” wraps would be only as additionally stronger as the test of two strands of thread as they leave the blank and comeback to it in within single wrap rotations that cross free or air space. The bit of epoxy covering these threads would add minimally more. Wrapping a guide is simply a miniature form of the ancient art of lashing. Bridges of incredible spans have been built across canyons with lashed joints. Ships have sailed across oceans with their rigging surviving incredible storms with lashed attachments. If the lashing is well performed and held securely down, there shouldn’t need to be locking work done away from the main joint area. I’ve seen wind knots in 65lb. braided line, on ten foot salmon rods, catch single-footed guides while lures in excess of an ounce were being hurled for maximum distance. I didn’t see guides pulled under this kind of leverage and raw force. I’ve seen amateur bass tournament guys treat their tackle like disposable trash. I’ve also fished with a genuine Bassmaster Classic winner who treats his tackle with professional care. My point is that locking wraps might help a little, but a quality wrap should hold under all fishing conditions when wanton abuse isn’t on the menu. My only issues with guide and rod damage has involved TSA inspectors.

The problem is, for thousands of anglers, standard wraps don't hold the guides in place under some circumstances. The Forhan Lock Wrap addressed and solved this problem. What "seems like" and "should not be necessary" don't always pass muster in the real world. Many fisherman are hard on their tackle.

So the bottom line is this - if you only build rods for yourself or those who are kind to their tackle, dispense with any sort of security or locking wrap. You don't need it. If, however you build for the fishing public in general, a security or locking wrap is a good idea that can save you from having to repair rods that come back due to displaced guides.

As a side note on the Forhan Locking Wrap and those who might choose to employ it - Rich Forhan is arguably the most influential custom rod builder of the past 30 years. He's consulted for just about every well known commercial rod manufacturing company on the planet. He's worked at the top level of professional bass fishing and his innovations and ideas have driven the bass fishing rod market for decades. You can't pick up a bass rod anywhere these days and not see Rich's influence on it. He knows what he's doing.

...............

the locking wrap is so easy to do and stablizes the guide so well..i fish in snag infested water my rod is poked into it to get unsnagged often, way to often..the locking wrap has kept me fishing i,m sure..

Fly-rodders whose snake guides are made of a light-wire, flexible NiTi alloy face guide-pulling-out problems greater than those encountered by anglers trolling/casting #30+ line. Next to careful handling of rods the construction of guide feet and their connection to guide rings are most critical. Thread wraps are a distant third.