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Re: Length of winding
Posted by: Kent Griffith (---)
Date: January 02, 2022 10:13AM

Ben I don't doubt it for a second, but we have to consider the possibility that it may not be those few extra thread wraps behind your success rate.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/06/2022 10:46AM by Kent Griffith.

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Re: Length of winding
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: January 02, 2022 10:14AM

Kent,

You do not seem aware of what the Forhan lock wrap is. You cannot pull it off a rod blank with pliers. And it has proven over a full decade and a half to be a godsend for perhaps tens of thousands of bass fishermen who routinely pull single foot guides off their rods when pulling the rods from rod storage lockers. The Forhan wrap isn't theory or gimmick. It's been proven and if you build rods for bass fisherman it's a good value to add it to your rods.

.............

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Re: Length of winding
Posted by: Kent Griffith (---)
Date: January 02, 2022 10:20AM

And this is without epoxy or with epoxy?



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/06/2022 10:48AM by Kent Griffith.

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Re: Length of winding
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: January 02, 2022 10:28AM

Kent,

I have not said anything negative about you as a person and have no idea where you're getting that from. Every time somebody disagrees with you, you take it as an insult. You've done this several times now and need to understand that any on public form people will disagree with each other on certain things. It's not personal - it's a give and take exchange.

Since you asked, the Forhan wrap, even without epoxy, can't be pulled from the rod blank without breaking the guide or the thread. It has been a major step forward in terms of guide security for single foot guides. There are many rod builders that are not aware of it or how to do it - for them the instructions can be found on the online library page here. Its worth a couple minutes to look it over.

............

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Re: Length of winding
Posted by: Kent Griffith (---)
Date: January 02, 2022 10:34AM

Tom Kirkman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Kent,
>
> I have not said anything negative about you as a
> person and have no idea where you're getting that
> from. Every time somebody disagrees with you, you
> take it as an insult. You've done this several
> times now

Really? I'd like to see them. I only defend myself when other people cross the line of writing words about another member that should never ever happen. I don't ever say one word directed at other members on a personal level called ad hominem which is off the topic when words are aimed at and directed at others... stay on topic and all is well. Go ad hominem in any way and expect people to stand up for themselves. Admin should be above this and should hold other members accountable as well but we do not see a lot of that. I can count only one time I have.

Myself and a couple others have noticed that any challenges to any status quo brings out the ad hominem instantly. We see this same tactic in politics and social engineering.

> and need to understand that any on
> public form people will disagree with each other
> on certain things. It's not personal

It becomes personal when a member says to another member "you don't know" or you something or another. This is ad hominem. This is personal.
It is fine for people to disagree. And I welcome disagreement. I am OK with disagreement. I am not OK with any ad hominem words.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/17/2022 05:57AM by Kent Griffith.

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Re: Length of winding
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: January 02, 2022 10:47AM

No, I did nothing of the sort. I read your posts on locking wraps and none of what you wrote could be applied to the Forhan Wrap. I assumed that you are not aware of it and may have confused it with more common security wraps that are only a few winds of thread behind the guide leg. Many rod builders are not aware of the additional steps involved in the Forhan wrap that make it so secure.

...........

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Re: Length of winding
Posted by: Mike Ballard (---.cust.tzulo.com)
Date: January 02, 2022 11:02AM

I had no idea that NASA contractors were instructed on how to make Forhan wraps!

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Re: Length of winding
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: January 02, 2022 11:11AM

For original poster Mickey, who is a new builder and may be wondering what the heck is going on, let me add that the value of the locking wrap that Tom refers to will vary somewhat due to many factors, one of which I think is important, the foot design and size of the guide. Small "micro" guides with very small feet are, in my opinion, more susceptible to pulling out because of the foot size and shape, maybe less susceptible due to the ring being so low it might not get caught on anything. But whatever conclusion one comes to about the factors that might influence pull out, Tom is absolutely right that the locking wrap is not only effective, but easy. It is almost effortless insurance against pull out. Look in the library for complete instructions. I suggest you just get into the habit of doing it on single foot guides and it will become "automatic."

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Re: Length of winding
Posted by: Kent Griffith (---)
Date: January 02, 2022 11:13AM

Tom Kirkman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Kent,
>
> You do not seem aware of what the Forhan lock wrap
> is.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/17/2022 06:47AM by Kent Griffith.

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Re: Length of winding
Posted by: Mike Ballard (---.cust.tzulo.com)
Date: January 02, 2022 11:15AM

I think one problem with some responses in this thread is the use of the term "The Locking Wrap." There are LOT of different type locking wraps and they are not all the same same. The Forhan Lock Wrap is WAY different in that it completely encircles the guide leg and really does lock the guide to the blank even before you apply finish. Don't knock it 'till you have tried it!

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Re: Length of winding
Posted by: Mike Ballard (---.cust.tzulo.com)
Date: January 02, 2022 11:18AM

Kent Griffith Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We can send people to moon and back, but not
> qualified to make a decent custom rod! Ha!
>
> My brain was good enough for NASA, military, Navy,
> Air Force Titan rocket VIB building, Universal
> Studios, Disney, live sound engineering, recording
> and much more, with 2 degrees in electronics and
> motor rewind and generator dynamics, but custom
> rods? Totally clueless I suppose. Can't seem to
> figure it out. Gee, a little thread and some epoxy
> placement is just so confusing to me! I may not be
> the brightest light bulb in the bunch, but I am
> certainly not the dimmest either.
>
> I try to contribute positively when I can, but no
> one should ever write any words about another
> person that discredits them as seen here. I don't
> do it to others here. Never have. I stay on
> subject and do not turn any negative words on any
> other members for any reason. And it should not
> happen to me as well. At nearly 60 I have zero
> tolerance and patience for this sort of thing and
> right now I am caring for an 87 year old mother
> recovering from 3 cancer surgeries since Nov. 2,
> and pretty stressed out right now when I should be
> enjoying retirement, and a forum like this one
> should be a good outlet, but not when I see people
> telling me I have no clue and what I said does not
> apply and totally discredits me is something I
> don't find acceptable any longer. And if this is
> how I am to be treated then why bother any more?


I did not see anybody discredit you here and working for NASA is not a guarantee that a person is aware of the Forhan Lock Wrap. If you go back and read your own posts you will see that the comments you made are not applicable to the Forhan Lock Wrap so it would be understandable that somebody thought maybe you were not aware of it or had not tried it.

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Re: Length of winding
Posted by: Kent Griffith (---)
Date: January 02, 2022 11:21AM

Mike Ballard Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think one problem with some responses in this
> thread is the use of the term "The Locking Wrap."
> There are LOT of different type locking wraps and
> they are not all the same same. The Forhan Lock
> Wrap is WAY different in that it completely
> encircles the guide leg and really does lock the
> guide to the blank even before you apply finish.
> Don't knock it 'till you have tried it!


Its merely an epoxy substrate.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/06/2022 10:49AM by Kent Griffith.

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Re: Length of winding
Posted by: Mike Ballard (---.cust.tzulo.com)
Date: January 02, 2022 11:27AM

The Forhan wrap does not need epoxy to keep the guide from being pulled out. Tom is right when he says you could not pull it from the blank with pliers. In fact my only hesitation with the Forhan Lock Wrap is that it is too secure! I could see somebody breaking a rod if they hang a guide on something and pull too hard because that guide is not coming out. But I use it when I build bass rods because I got tired of guys bringing rods back with mnissing guides and telling me I didn't "glue" the guide correctly. And yes I put epoxy on my wraps but not to keep the guides from pulling out. It is just to protect the thread.

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Re: Length of winding
Posted by: Kent Griffith (---)
Date: January 02, 2022 11:32AM

Mike Ballard Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And yes I put epoxy on
> my wraps but not to keep the guides from pulling
> out. It is just to protect the thread.

Disagree.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/06/2022 10:49AM by Kent Griffith.

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Re: Length of winding
Posted by: Kent Griffith (---)
Date: January 02, 2022 11:34AM

Mike Ballard Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Forhan wrap does not need epoxy to keep the
> guide from being pulled out. Tom is right when he
> says you could not pull it from the blank with
> pliers.

I will give this a go soon.

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Re: Length of winding
Posted by: Mike Ballard (---.cust.tzulo.com)
Date: January 02, 2022 11:35AM

And so now you have insulted me! I have built rods long enough to know what epoxy adds to a wrap and for you to say I have no idea is an insult. See how that works???

But seriously the point is that the Forhan Lock Wrap does not depend on epoxy to perform its function. Some of the other types rely on that epoxy to make them work even halfway decent, but not the Forhan. It is a completely different animal.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/02/2022 11:39AM by Mike Ballard.

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Re: Length of winding
Posted by: Kent Griffith (---)
Date: January 02, 2022 11:44AM

it happens



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/06/2022 10:50AM by Kent Griffith.

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Re: Length of winding
Posted by: Kent Griffith (---)
Date: January 02, 2022 11:47AM

Oh and in the tutorial I just read again on this forum and in the library...

"Once the threads are epoxied, the guide is now effectively prevented from pulling out."

Once they are what?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/06/2022 10:51AM by Kent Griffith.

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Re: Length of winding
Posted by: Mike Ballard (---.cust.tzulo.com)
Date: January 02, 2022 11:49AM

Yes your post was a response to me. You lectured me on epoxy and what it adds to a wrap without knowing how many years I have been building rods or my work on many offshore sportfishing boats where durability and strength of our tackle was a priority. Seriously I am not really insulted, just wanted to show how easy it is to take things personal and think something was aimed at or meant when the actual words do not indicate any such thing. And Kent you know you have done this in a LOT of threads here and with a LOT of different people who just chose to disagree with you.

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Re: Length of winding
Posted by: Mike Ballard (---.cust.tzulo.com)
Date: January 02, 2022 11:52AM

No, the Forhan wrap does not rely on the epoxy to prevent pull-out. Mr. Forhan is just instructing the reader to finish the guide wrap as normal. Why don't you just try it for yourself? Try it without epoxy. You will NOT be able to pull the guide out from the wrap.

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