What have you used to smooth out your spool system to give a gradual increase in tension as the spring is tightened? Versus smooth then suddenly too tight as spring tension is applied, my older Renzetti uses delrin belleville washers, which work pretty good, interested to see what others have done

I use opposing magnets.
Google Apex Magnets and build the system yourself with a 1/4" threaded stainless bolt, nylon or delrin washers and a nylon wing nut.
Herb

Thanks…sounds like a good idea, no spring. What force magnets did you use, and does it work on all spool sizes?

Remember that as the thread on the spool reduces in diameter, the spring or magnet tension on the spool increases for the same amount of thread pulled from the spool.

...........

Roger,I believe I used this one.
[www.kjmagnetics.com]

Be very carefull that you don't get flesh caught between disks.
These magnets are very strong.
Keep away from Pacemaker or defibrillator.
Just use one disk to oppose the other.
They are very brittle - so any sharp bump will fracture them.
The OD of a 1/4" threaded rod is a little bit smaller than the I.D. of the spool of thread. So to get a concentric rotating of the spool - wrap the threaded rod with tape.
Hint - when switching from a large spool to a small spool - take up the difference with a 1/2" cork ring.
Herb
CTS Rep
PS - Hint #2 - once you determine opposing orientation - wrap circumferance of ring with tape and mark it with an arrow facing in toward the upright.
Then mark the opposing ring with arrow facing out from upright.
This way you will mount them properly on threaded bolt.
If you do not do this you will ultimately get them stuck to each other and it's a bi... to separate.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/27/2021 12:26PM by Herb Ladenheim.

Herb Ladenheim Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Roger,I believe I used this one.
> [www.kjmagnetics.com]
> 44
>
> Be very carefull that you don't get flesh caught
> between disks.
> These magnets are very strong.
> Keep away from Pacemaker or defibrillator.
> Just use one disk to oppose the other.
> They are very brittle - so any sharp bump will
> fracture them.
> The OD of a 1/4" threaded rod is a little bit
> smaller than the I.D. of the spool of thread. So
> to get a concentric rotating of the spool - wrap
> the threaded rod with tape.
> Hint - when switching from a large spool to a
> small spool - take up the difference with a 1/2"
> cork ring.
> Herb
> CTS Rep
> PS - Hint #2 - once you determine opposing
> orientation - wrap circumferance of ring with tape
> and mark it with an arrow facing in toward the
> upright.
> Then mark the opposing ring with arrow facing out
> from upright.
> This way you will mount them properly on threaded
> bolt.
> If you do not do this you will ultimately get them
> stuck to each other and it's a bi... to separate.


Thanks, Herb

The spring or magnet tension doesn't increase. The diminishing diameter of the spool makes the tension increase because as the diameter of the spool decreases, the thread coming off of it is pulling on a smaller and smaller circle. I don't know if using the wording that the thread loses leverage on the spool, is the correct way to phrase it. But that's what it boils down to.

And I switched to opposing magnets a couple of years ago. The thread feeds much more smoothly, and spool tension is much more responsive to adjustments with the magnets, than it was with the spring.

Herb, any chance you could offer picture of set-up? Thank you

Right on, David. I would think the changing diameter of the blank would have even more effect on the thread tension than the changing diameter of the spool.

As the thread (circumference) on the spool decreases, the spool has to turn a greater number of revolutions for the same amount of thread pulled from it.

Rod builders need only re-adjust their tension setting as the spool shows a practical reduction in thread left on the spool. Unless you're using a very small spool to begin with, this won't happen over wrapping just a few guides so I wouldn't get carried away with it.

Cup systems avoid this change in tension per thread diameter on the spool, but have their own downside as well.

..........

why do the wraps at the butt end of the rod pack so much easier than wraps at the smaller diameter tip end under the same winding tension..

The diameter of the blank does NOT change the thread tension ! The tension from the spool is not changed by what it is applied to. What changes is the amount of thread pulled from the spool.

Yes you are right. I guess it just seems like it changes. My bad. I hope Billy doesn't see this.

Ben, what we are missing is the tendency of the wraps to tighten on a smaller diameter vs the larger diameter. Because the torque it takes to turn the thread spool is relatively constant the tension on the thread has to be relatively constant. How the thread reacts to being wound onto a smaller diameter is another issue.

my nephew says to make a large wrap you need a longer piece of thread than a piece for a small wrap..a long piece has more stretch than a short piece..so a large loopstretches more..

Ben's nephew may have the answer. Pretty hard to get any stretch on a whippy tip section.

Roger,
I stopped using either magnets or using a spring on a spool of thread.
As you point out- it is very difficult (at least for me)

So, I simply use a one thread stand complete with a spring tension disk that holds the thread under tension as the rod is turned.

If using the bare steel spring loaded disks I use only nylon or poly thread with no issues.

But I do not use metallic thread for doing trim wraps because the thread will jam up.

However, I received some teflon squares that go onto the tension device. The teflon isolates the thread from the steel spring disks.

If you need to do more than one thread at a time - you can either multiple threads through the spring tension device, or you can additional tension devices.

-----------------

Here is the tension disk that I use for controlling the tension on the thread, or threads.

[www.rodbuilding.org]




[www.rodbuilding.org]


Notice, when I use the thread tension device for holding the thread - you can observe the spool of thread. The spool is free to rotate on the rest of the thread holder - next to no tension on the thread from the thread spool rotating.

If I use the 1 lb spools of thread - that the thread is pulled off the thread cone. After the thread is pulled off the cone, the thread is rotated back, then down to be at the same level that I use for height when rod wrapping. From there, the line goes through a line guide on he side of the thread tension extension arm. Then, the thread goes up the thread to the extension and then through the extension spring - and then the line runs directly to the rod blank.

When, one examines the thread path, there is very little tension put on the thread by the thread tension components and really there is only the spring tension device that causes any tension on the thread before the thread tension device.

But, no tension at the line feeding spool. No tension - anywhere in the system, except at the spring tension device.

When the tension device is being used, the nylon cutting board base of the tension device is simply moved along the bench top, with the front edge of the tension holder and base. This means that as long as you can pace your self when wrapping, you will able to consistently wrap rods - always using the correct thread tension.

Note:
In this system, the line feeds from the top back side of the rod blank. So, when wrapping the top line is always in view and makes for excellent wraps.

Best wishes

roger wilson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Roger,
> I stopped using either magnets or using a spring
> on a spool of thread.
> As you point out- it is very difficult (at least
> for me)
>
> So, I simply use a one thread stand complete with
> a spring tension disk that holds the thread under
> tension as the rod is turned.
>
> If using the bare steel spring loaded disks I use
> only nylon or poly thread with no issues.
>
> But I do not use metallic thread for doing trim
> wraps because the thread will jam up.
>
> However, I received some teflon squares that go
> onto the tension device. The teflon isolates the
> thread from the steel spring disks.
>
> If you need to do more than one thread at a time
> - you can either multiple threads through the
> spring tension device, or you can additional
> tension devices.
>
> -----------------
>
> Here is the tension disk that I use for
> controlling the tension on the thread, or threads.
>
>
> [www.rodbuilding.org]
> p/photo/14484/title/thread-tensioner-using-simple-
> spring-loaded-disks/cat/508
>
>
>
>
> [www.rodbuilding.org]
> p/photo/13269/title/thread-stand-for-large-thread-
> spools/cat/508
>
>
> Notice, when I use the thread tension device for
> holding the thread - you can observe the spool of
> thread. The spool is free to rotate on the rest
> of the thread holder - next to no tension on the
> thread from the thread spool rotating.
>
> If I use the 1 lb spools of thread - that the
> thread is pulled off the thread cone. After the
> thread is pulled off the cone, the thread is
> rotated back, then down to be at the same level
> that I use for height when rod wrapping. From
> there, the line goes through a line guide on he
> side of the thread tension extension arm. Then,
> the thread goes up the thread to the extension and
> then through the extension spring - and then the
> line runs directly to the rod blank.
>
> When, one examines the thread path, there is very
> little tension put on the thread by the thread
> tension components and really there is only the
> spring tension device that causes any tension on
> the thread before the thread tension device.
>
> But, no tension at the line feeding spool. No
> tension - anywhere in the system, except at the
> spring tension device.
>
> When the tension device is being used, the nylon
> cutting board base of the tension device is
> simply moved along the bench top, with the front
> edge of the tension holder and base. This means
> that as long as you can pace your self when
> wrapping, you will able to consistently wrap rods
> - always using the correct thread tension.
>
> Note:
> In this system, the line feeds from the top back
> side of the rod blank. So, when wrapping the top
> line is always in view and makes for excellent
> wraps.
>
> Best wishes

Thanks for the explanation. I actually have one of these that came with my mid 90s Renzetti, but wasn’t sure about it. I’ll give it a try