I started building rods when tubular fiberglass blanks were new on the market and switched to graphite blanks when they became available. Even those relatively crude early graphite blanks made those old fiberglass blanks seem like a penny waiting for change. There appears to be a renewed interest in building rods on fiberglass blanks. How do these new fiberglass blanks differ in performance from the fiberglass blanks of, say, 50 years ago, and what advantage(s) do modern fiberglass have over modern graphite blanks? I am chiefly interested in fly rod blanks.

Phil, that is a very interesting question, I am curious as well but my interests lies with spinning rods. Lets see what the community says.

my best memories of fishing fiberglass spinning rods were with a Garcia 5 star rod, model 2133a spinning rod. i have four(one unused, in mint condition) but just prefer the sensitivity of a graphite rod. gl3's, batson's, bass pro shops' graphite spinning/casting rods are far better, in my view,

in sensitivity. i, too, am curious about the new/old comparison. we surely used some clubs long ago. mid 70's, i built a fiberglass blank, not sure of the model, with the new-fangled fuji guides. first cast just amazed me, distance wise.

Phil,

I want to start off commenting with "All glass is not the same"

There are a number of varieties and types (just as with carbon) with the most common being S glass and E glass.

In the "days of old" the most common references are L-rod and H-rod (all of these were "roving" type, which really means a twisted glass yarn)

L rod was a weave, approximately 167g per square yard, and there was 6 strands of glass running down the length, and one strand across (around) the weaves could be both our of S glass or E glass, the main difference between S and E was that the latter (E) was not as stiff and did not elongate as much as the S glass (s glass is stronger), E Glass is also "cloudier" in its appearance.

H Rod was a weave of 280 grams per square yard, there were also 8 strands of glass yarn running down the length, for every 1 across

The biggest reason for switching to carbon from glass is the weight to stiffness ratio. To achieve a given stiffness of glass, you had to add A LOT of layers, which added to the weight, and also reduced sensitivity. An additional reason was the recovery of glass, it is slower than carbon.

Fast forward to a few years ago, AGY, an American Manufacturer developed a glass that they call "Zentron" or S2 glass. Just like with E or S glass, S2 glass is not the same. The one to look and use is a 9 micron (there are 14 micron, which is regular S2, as well as 21 micron, also S2). S2 glass is also lighter than E or S glass, and is "non roving" or non twisted, and made in uni-directional format without that additional "cross fiber"

The 9 micron glass is really special - also non roving, it has an effective modulus of standard carbon (which really means that is has nearly the same stiffness as Standard Modulus carbon for the same amount of layers)

Glass is also very tough - it has a greater elongation that carbon, which means that it can take more abuse. (There are some carbon fibers that can do this, but they are really, really expensive) and when you combine the properties of the "new" glass, like a massive reduction in weight to stiffness ratios, overall toughness, it is no wonder that there is a "renaissance" in the glass world.

Finally, there are a lot of companies claiming in their marketing that they use a 9 micron fiber/Zentron - from AGY - and unless they are a domestic manufacturer, this is simply not true. It is a fiber that is not exportable out of the US.

Best Regards,
Aleks

Phil Ewanicki Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I started building rods when tubular fiberglass
> blanks were new on the market and switched to
> graphite blanks when they became available. Even
> those relatively crude early graphite blanks made
> those old fiberglass blanks seem like a penny
> waiting for change. There appears to be a renewed
> interest in building rods on fiberglass blanks.
> How do these new fiberglass blanks differ in
> performance from the fiberglass blanks of, say, 50
> years ago, and what advantage(s) do modern
> fiberglass have over modern graphite blanks? I am
> chiefly interested in fly rod blanks.

Hello All.

My first glass rod wasn't a tube but was an antenna my dad got off a tank and was solid, the rods I had before that were wood, and my first deep sea reel had a piece of leather that you put your thumb on as a drag, my dad was in the Corps. and I have 3 siblings so all our stuff was used or hand-me-downs back in the early 60's.

My uncle Robert E. Guist wrote a book on fishing lures, I lost it in Florence, I guess I should see if I can find another copy.

I've still got some of those things from back then Florence didn't get everything.


Tight Wraps & Tighter Lines.

Bob,

New Bern, NC.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/25/2021 10:31AM by Robert A. Guist.

I had plenty of glass rods from the past that were nice. Shakespeare, Lamiglas, Fenwick, Conolon all made some very nice blanks. Honestly I think there was a tendency to spend less back in those days. I also think you might not have felt a graphite offshore trolling rod was "that much better" . I'd wager most IFGA trolling blanks are still glass.

Graphite will be lighter, stiffer, more sensitive, and generally "crisper". For some techniques that adds up to a deal breaker. For others, not so much. And for some, perhaps a step backwards.

Sure, some glass like S2, is a definite improvement. But at the end of the day I think it comes down to where, how, and what you fish for. Then, what do you like? Once upon a time people might have said glass made bamboo fly rods "seem like a penny waiting for change" yet bamboo fly rods command a top price and aren't going away.

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

As I only build fly rods, I cannot address sensitivity as it does not apply.

The modern glass fly rod blanks are very much lighter and faster than the glass of 50 years ago. Other than the toughness Alex mentioned I am not aware of other advantages.

In my case the interest today, is in the fish playing performance of the new glass.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/25/2021 01:06PM by Phil Erickson.

Modern glass is better than older glass, just as modern carbon is better than older carbon. It depends on what you're looking for in a rod.

.............

Robert A. Guist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hello All.
>
> My first glass rod wasn't a tube but was an
> antenna my dad got off a tank and was solid, the
> rods I had before that were wood, and my first
> deep sea reel had a piece of leather that you put
> your thumb on as a drag, my dad was in the Corps.
> and I have 3 siblings so all our stuff was used or
> hand-me-downs back in the early 60's.
>
> My uncle Robert R. Guist wrote a book on fishing
> lures, I lost it in Florence, I guess I should see
> if I can find another copy.
>
> I've still got some of those things from back then
> Florence didn't get everything.
>
>
> Tight Wraps & Tighter Lines.

Bob,

A few companies went into business repurposing those glass military antennas as fishing rod blanks. Rawhide was one.

............

Here's a thread from last year about the latest offerings in glass.

[www.rodbuilding.org]

The first glass rod I ever owned or even saw was a Wright & McGill made of solid fiberglass and was square, not round, in cross-section - sorta like a hexagonal bamboo fly rod. These old-time rods still work, but so does a cane pole. Is there a practical reason to fish a glass or bamboo rod today, and if so, what is it?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/25/2021 04:31PM by Phil Ewanicki.

, glass or graphite but there is a third choice called composite, a blend of both..i like to call them expensive ugly sticks who has been building composite rods for decades..before they wwere called composits..so why not just fish just glass..not as sensetive it is said but only if you think sensetivity comes from the rod,,then the super braids came out and made my glass rods feel like graphite rods..i now get sensetivity from the line and the gentle fish fighting quality of glass from the rod..

^^ There's a guy who has no clue what he's talking about.

a few years ago my nephew and i were fishing one of our favorite local farm ponds..we were both casting 1/8 oz. chatter baits..i,m talking up how great thesse baits are chattering and my nephew finally commented that he could not feel any chatter until he got the bait about half way in..i handed him my rod and said try this..he made a cast and staeted cranking..he yells oh my god i can,t believe it,s pounding.. what,s the diifference..i said it,s not the rod because youre is graphite and mine is e-glass but your line is mono and mine is 10# braid..the line is the difference and a big difference too..when we got home i changed his line to 10# power pro..

I agree that the line has the greatest effect on sensitivity, and by far the most sensitive line is braid. But you can get just about any action and power you want in graphite blanks, and I use only graphite blanks in my building for all techniques. If one likes the way glass fights fish he should try moderate action graphite blanks. Want to slow the response time of graphite down a little, use heavy guides, maybe a couple extra ones. I don't know why one would want to, but it can easily be done. Moderate action graphite of the lower modulus levels are already quite a bit slower in response than the premium graphites. If one wants to get a little "forgiveness" into the line add a mono (or even FC) leader about as long as the rod. It will add a little "give" without taking the sensitivity back to that of an all-mono system.

I also want to mention that I found something surprising recently by doing an internet search for "soulfull action fly rods." I actually found two brands who were using this term to describe their fly rods. You are vindicated, at least partially, Phil. But I don't know yet what "soulful" is supposed to mean. I'll try meditation.

A rod cannot transmit what it does not receive. Braided line will transmit vibrations to any rod more quickly and strongly than mono will. However, If you use the same line on both a glass and carbon rod, with the carbon rod being possessing a higher modulus than the glass rod, the carbon rod will be more "sensitive."

..........

i grew up with glass and always liked it,s fish fightig qualities but got won over by graphites sensitivity especially for worm and jig fishing..then the super lines came out and changed how i looked at graphite and glass rods..with braided line on my reel my glass rods suddenly had the sensitivity of graphite rods with mono but were slower and gentler in their response.. fish head shakes were softer and surges became less forceful and less fish were lost especially on lures with treble hook..braid made graphite even faster and head shakes even harsher too many fish were lost..when the water tempeerature got down into the 50s and 40s it got harder to hook fish..my most favored lure in cold water is the spinnerbait..i could feel them pecking on it but they were not getting it in so i could not hook them but when i changed to the soft tip ugly stick i caught every one, all really nice fish..i gave up fishing graphite rods and con centrated on glass with braided line..it,s almost too good..lol..with so many e-glass rods out there i only have to look for one with the power i want..i know with glass the responsiveness i,m going to get but with graphite it,s too hit or miss plus the cost prohibits playing around..i can get e-glass rods for around twenty dollars and have no fear in making modifications to the rod..

Lots of really inexpensive graphite blanks out there now, and they are inherently slower in response than the premium ones. I expect one with a moderate action will feel a lot like the better glass, but most likely will be lighter.

what i is take a mud hole 61/2' blank and cut it back to 5' to get the swing weight i want..it feels like graphite but fishes like glass..8 guides, mostly #5s help make for a good hook set, #8 yag and runners, no reducers, don,t need them with light braid..it,s also a good guide train for my curado, i use a dps reel reat..it,s a fun rod and fishes like a biggerr rod (because it still has the flex of a 6 1/2' rod) just to add, that it is used on farm ponds from shore which can be brushy so this is a good bow and arrow rod too.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/27/2021 11:26PM by ben belote.

!00% what Michael, said, to my way of thinking. Also, in the past glass, would always "take a set" if not stored perfectly correctly. No reason for me to go back.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/28/2021 06:27PM by Lynn Behler.