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Fair Trade?
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (97.104.222.---)
Date: December 14, 2021 02:27PM

Is there a fairly easy way to tell whether rod blanks and components are made in the U.S.A. or are imported?

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Re: Fair Trade?
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: December 14, 2021 03:38PM

If they are made elsewhere they are supposed to carry a label stating such. If they are assembled here from parts made elsewhere they should carry a label saying that.

The manufacturer websites should also carry statements to the effect of where their products and/or parts used for assembly here are made.

.............

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Re: Fair Trade?
Posted by: Lance Schreckenbach (---.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net)
Date: December 15, 2021 02:09PM

If you are trying to avoid Chinese made, then you may be out of luck in this hobby. Inevitably at least half of the components and tools that we use to build rods will be outsourced to China and their cheap labor cost. The best you can do is try to avoid things that say Chinese made and get Taiwanese (Whom China claims), Korean or some other country. USA products only will not possible. One of the things that make this country great is our ability to trade with just about any country we choose but in order to do this we make concessions where necessary, China is a big one. Here are the "so called" 10 Principals of Fair Trade and yes we actually pay more for this:

1. Create Opportunities for Economically Disadvantaged Producers
This means supporting marginalized, small producers, whether these are independent family businesses, associations, or co-operatives. It seeks to move towards a secure income, self-sufficiency, and ownership.
2. Transparency and Accountability
Communication must be open at all levels of the supply chain and management and commercial relations transparent. Being accountable to all stakeholders and appropriately involve employees, members, and producers in the decision-making processes.
3. Fair Trading Practices
This means trading with concern for social, economic, and environmental well-being of marginalized small producers, and not maximizing profits at their expense; conducting all trade in a fair and transparent way; protecting cultural identity and traditional skills.
4. Payment of a Fair Price
A fair price is mutually agreed by all involved through dialogue and participation which provides fair pay to the producers and can also be sustained by the market.
5. Ensuring no Child Labor and Forced Labor
Adhering to the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child, and national/local laws on employment of children; ensuring there is no forced labor in its workforce, members or home workers. Any involvement of children in the production is always disclosed and monitored and does not adversely affect the children’s well-being, security, education and need for play.
6. Commitment to Non-Discrimination, Gender Equality, Freedom of Association
No discrimination in hiring, remuneration, access to training, promotion, termination, or retirement based on race, caste, national origin, religion, disability, gender, sexual orientation, union membership, political affiliation, HIV/Aids status or age. Gender equality is promoted and ensures that women are given opportunities, full employment rights and full statutory employment benefits and receive equal pay for equal work. All employees’ rights are respected to form and join trade unions of their choice.
7. Ensuring Good Working Conditions
Providing safe and healthy working conditions for all, working hours and conditions comply with national, local and ILO conventions; raising awareness of health and safety issues to improve practices.
8. Providing Capacity Building
Increase positive impacts for small, marginalized producers through Fair Trade; developing skills and capabilities of its employees or members.
9. Promoting Fair Trade
Raise awareness of the aim of Fair Trade and the need for greater justice in world trade.
10. Respect for the Environment
Maximize the use of raw materials from sustainable managed sources and buying locally where possible; reduce energy consumption and use renewable energy when possible; use organic or low pesticide production methods wherever possible; use recycled or easily biodegradable materials for packing and goods dispatched by sea wherever possible.

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Re: Fair Trade?
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (97.104.222.---)
Date: December 16, 2021 06:22PM

I wonder which and how many fishing rods sold by American rod companies are built on Chinese-made rod blanks?

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Re: Fair Trade?
Posted by: Geoff Staples (---.wavecable.com)
Date: December 16, 2021 06:59PM

Phil, the short answer is: "tons of rod companies do." However, they cannot legally put "Made in the USA" on the finished rod if the blank isn't made in the USA (to the best of my knowledge.) The consumer must decide whether they're willing to purchase a rod made with a blank or components sourced from China, New Zealand, Vietnam, South Korea, Japan, Italy, etc. In your personal opinion, what percentage of foreign made componentry makes a rod undesirable? Also, does USA design, distribution, or assembly labor factor into your purchasing decisions? Are your decisions regarding purchasing foreign products based on personal politics that vary by country or culture? Or, possibly your personal experiences with non-USA product quality?

-Geoff Staples, Curious Marketer

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Re: Fair Trade?
Posted by: John DeMartini (---)
Date: December 16, 2021 08:07PM

Shorter answer.Ask the vendor.

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Re: Fair Trade?
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (97.104.222.---)
Date: December 17, 2021 08:53AM

Geoff: I would rather patronize American workers and American products than I would support obscene price mark-ups and profits for American importers - given blank performances don't widely differ. That's a tough order, since the point of origin of rod blanks is seldom revealed and objective information (facts) about blanks are rare as impoverished politicians.

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Re: Fair Trade?
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: December 17, 2021 04:20PM

Phil, may I ask for your data to back up the statement "given blank performances don't widely differ." ?? It's only fair, since you always are asking for data. I might also ask for your data on "obscene price mark-ups." What is the definition of obscene? Has to be an objective definition.

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Re: Fair Trade?
Posted by: Mike Ballard (---.ff.avast.com)
Date: December 19, 2021 10:07AM

Many rod blanks I buy have a "made in china" sticker on the blank butt. I would think this must be a requirement or else nobody would advertise the fact that their blanks are made in china.

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Re: Fair Trade?
Posted by: Richard Bowers (---.ptld.qwest.net)
Date: December 21, 2021 07:31PM

There are many rod manufacturers that make blanks in the USA. Two that I know of are Berkheimer Rods and Stryker Rods. NFC has some made in the US, as does Lamiglas. Bottom line, if you are limited to "Made in the USA", you need to ask about each model as they could be either way. Many blank manufacturers tried to make their blanks and rods here in the USA, like Cousins and Rogue Rods, but have closed their doors due to the higher costs of doing business putting them at a disadvantage, despite frequently putting out superior products.

OIne example of the transition from USA to Offshore is Lamiglas - they used to make a series called Rogue River (discontinued many years ago...) in Woodland, WA. It included my all time favorite blank (RR902MT) Then they started having them made offshore to their specs. For those blanks, one clue was the blank color - the original USA models were a dark Forest Green and the offshore blanks were the polished graphite. While the color was not a guarantee of the origin, it was at least an indication.

I personally do not concern myself with the blank origin, I am much more concerned with fit, finish, and performance. If a blank does the job as advertised and looks good doing it, I am happy.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/30/2021 06:12PM by Richard Bowers.

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Re: Fair Trade?
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (97.104.222.---)
Date: December 22, 2021 08:49PM

Michael: I seldom find retailers provide much objective data about rod blanks other than the length, weight, and price of the blank, but if a blank builds into rods that perform I don't much care where it was built. I do resent American marketers who buy foreign-made rod blanks, withhold the blanks' country of origin, and re-sell them in the U.S.A. as blanks or built-out rods after raising their price to eight or times their cost. This is simply "scalping" labor and anglers..

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Re: Fair Trade?
Posted by: Aaron Petersen (12.144.64.---)
Date: December 29, 2021 01:04PM

THE STANDARD FOR UNQUALIFIED MADE IN USA CLAIMS
What is the standard for a product to be called Made in USA without qualification?
For a product to be called Made in USA, or claimed to be of domestic origin without qualifications or limits on the claim, the product must be "all or virtually all" made in the U.S. The term "United States," as referred to in the Enforcement Policy Statement, includes the 50 states, the District of Columbia, and the U.S. territories and possessions.

What does "all or virtually all" mean?
"All or virtually all" means that all significant parts and processing that go into the product must be of U.S. origin. That is, the product should contain no — or negligible — foreign content.

What substantiation is required for a Made in USA claim?
When a manufacturer or marketer makes an unqualified claim that a product is Made in USA, it should have — and rely on — a "reasonable basis" to support the claim at the time it is made. This means a manufacturer or marketer needs competent and reliable evidence to back up the claim that its product is "all or virtually all" made in the U.S.

Example: A company produces propane barbecue grills at a plant in Nevada. The product’s major components include the gas valve, burner and aluminum housing, each of which is made in the U.S. The grill’s knobs and tubing are imported from Mexico. An unqualified Made in USA claim is not likely to be deceptive because the knobs and tubing make up a negligible portion of the product’s total manufacturing costs and are insignificant parts of the final product.

This is from the FTC. To meet "virtually all" I would argue that if the materials that make a blank is made in USA and the blank is rolled in USA then it is worthy of marketing as "MADE IN USA." There really is not a negligible component in the raw blank. However with assembled rods one could argue that if you built on a "MADE IN USA" the rest is negligible.

The real question is not what you consider negligible but what the FTC does. I would personally argue the reel seat and guides would not be considered as such. But you could tie a line on the nd and fish it raw.

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