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Re: Matching action of existing rod
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: November 12, 2021 09:23AM

Mr. Ward may not have his own library of specs from other blanks to work from. A couple or three builders have been generous enough to attempt hosting websites that compiled and maintained (for short periods) CCS stats for existing blanks. Pity that more did not submit information. The sponsor links still contain one such page although I don't know if it's been updated in some time.

In the meantime, it is a real shame that so many rod and blank manufacturers do not want buyers to be able to compare their blanks against those of competitors. The tools to do it are in place and each new model would require less than 5 minutes to run the numbers on. But until and unless buyers demand these numbers it's not going to happen.

...............

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Re: Matching action of existing rod
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---)
Date: November 12, 2021 09:52AM

Where can the layman fisherman like me find the published natural frequency of a blank? I don't know all the subtleties of natural frequencies, but when I find a rod with excellent performance I would love to find a blank with the same resonance as the blank in that rod. I bet I could find a blank with the same frequency/physical characteristics as another blank costing 3 to 5 times as much?! Maybe that's why ads don't mention any concrete physical information about blanks besides length and weight and hoopla?

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Re: Matching action of existing rod
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: November 12, 2021 01:54PM

You cannot, Phil. But you can do it yourself on the blanks you get into your possession, and in time you'll have a good library of data that will help. I predict you will be disappointed in thinking you will get the same true natural frequency as a premium blank for 1/3-1/5 the price. I have not found that and I have checked quite a few blanks/rods at different price points.

Less than 5 minutes to run the CCS, but add a few more to check the true natural frequency. Add a lot more to check CCF, and be careful your weight doesn't come off at the wrong time and let a highly loaded blank go nuts on you.

I am measuring true natural frequency, takes about 5 minutes, very low stresses involved, no safety issues, and I know of another builder who is measuring with another process.

"
The tools to do it are in place. CCF or true natural frequency?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/12/2021 02:37PM by Michael Danek.

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Re: Matching action of existing rod
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: November 12, 2021 02:11PM

Phil,

Your main problem is that you are preaching to the choir instead of to those you need to reach - the manufacturers of rods and blanks. If you want the makers of rods and blanks to supply additional and more meaningful information for you, tell them so. Repeatedly griping about it here isn't going to solve your issue.

............

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Re: Matching action of existing rod
Posted by: Mark Talmo (---)
Date: November 12, 2021 03:07PM

Tom,
Mr Danek does not have a problem nor is he griping about anything; others possibly but not Michael. He has simply (although tediously) and graciously developed a system / method to measure the frequency of a bare rod / blank which is very accurate and repeatable.
You do, however, make a good point of preaching to the “choir” rather than the “congregation”. With your vast experience of the rod building world, how would you approach attempting to persuade ALL blank and rod manufacturers to adopt labeling their products with a standardized numerical code such as ERN / AA / F (Frequency)?

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

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Re: Matching action of existing rod
Posted by: Robert A. Guist (---.res6.spectrum.com)
Date: November 12, 2021 03:22PM

Hello Mark.

Read again Tom is speaking to Phil not Michael.


Tight Wraps & Tighter Lines.

Bob,

New Bern, NC.

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Re: Matching action of existing rod
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---)
Date: November 12, 2021 03:39PM

Tom,

I just read a group of revues for ten fly rods. I was astonished to read this: "It feels light in the hand, is powerful without being stiff, and produces tremendous line speed with little effort." A newbie reads this and thinks, "Wow! This rod produces tremendous line speed with little effort, while other rods don't! It's easily worth the $900 they are asking for it!" This nonsense would dismay any reasonably intelligent individual contemplating taking up fly fishing - the preposterous assertion that a particular graphite tube produces tremendous speed with little effort. A sensible reader would conclude the old saw about fishermen making up lies extends to the makers and advertisers of fishing tackle.

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Re: Matching action of existing rod
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: November 12, 2021 03:54PM

Phil Ewanicki Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tom,
>
> I just read a group of revues for ten fly rods. I
> was astonished to read this: "It feels light in
> the hand, is powerful without being stiff, and
> produces tremendous line speed with little
> effort." A newbie reads this and thinks, "Wow!
> This rod produces tremendous line speed with
> little effort, while other rods don't! It's easily
> worth the $900 they are asking for it!" This
> nonsense would dismay any reasonably intelligent
> individual contemplating taking up fly fishing -
> the preposterous assertion that a particular
> graphite tube produces tremendous speed with
> little effort. A sensible reader would conclude
> the old saw about fishermen making up lies extends
> to the makers and advertisers of fishing tackle.

Then tell them so. Unfortunately, you aren't likely to reach them here.

.............

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Re: Matching action of existing rod
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: November 12, 2021 04:02PM

Phil, those revues were written by unemployed wine label writers. Probably a bamboo rod with a "hint of grass?" :-)

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Re: Matching action of existing rod
Posted by: Mark Talmo (---)
Date: November 12, 2021 04:23PM

Robert,
You are correct = thanks for the correction. It should have been obvious who Tom was addressing.
That being said, Tom did make a good observation and I am anxious for his reply to my question.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

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Re: Matching action of existing rod
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: November 12, 2021 04:56PM

Mark,

There is only one way to do it - have enough rod builders ask for that information when they buy blanks. The first company that offers it, and appears to gain market share because of it, would be the kicking off point for everyone adopting such a thing. Unfortunately, builders generally don't have the luxury of buying all their blanks from the same manufacturer as not every blank type they need can be sourced from just one company. And thus, most don't find it to be something that creates more sales for them.

.............

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Re: Matching action of existing rod
Posted by: Mark Talmo (71.147.59.---)
Date: November 12, 2021 06:03PM

Tom,
Thanks for the reply. I suppose it would take a continual and concerted effort by many, many rod builders to coerce the manufacturers to offer a standardized numerical code to describe the characteristics of their rods / blanks. With the majority of their sales probably being more rods than blanks, it may prove to be a hard sell from our end.
But we have already stepped on Mr. Ward’s topic enough = sorry Michael. While it is certainly a noble cause, starting a new topic would be more appropriate.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

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