Hi Everyone -
I'm building a CTS Affinity X 8-weight that will be uplined to a #9 Wulff Bermuda Triangle. I'm using all REC guides for the guide train - CERECOIL double-foot for the strippers and RECOIL double-foot snakes. I'm wondering what the advantages of going with 3 strippers vs 2 would be:

16 12 (strippers) and then 8 3s all the way out

or

16 12 10 (strippers) and then 7 3s all the way out.

I've done static load testing and some test casting with the 2 stripper setup but before I test cast the 3 stripper setup, what should I really be looking for in terms of differences? Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

Thanks,
Mike J

Having the first two or three guides of the same style starting from the butt will make no difference in how well a rod will cast. All it does is add extra weight, not much in your case due to the type of guides you are using, but it will add some.

I’d go with the 16 as the Stripper (only the first guide is called a stripper, rest are running guides) maybe a #5 or #4 next, then 3’s the rest of the way out. Object is to create the straightest line path and use the least number of changes in size, keeping in mind to use the smallest guides that will pass your line connections. #3’s as your final size are pretty typical on 8wts and will work just perfect.

That Affinity X is a sweet blank. You’ll enjoy it.

Another option is an ATC MicroWave double foot, 18 mm to 8 mm casting and fly stripping guide with TION frame and Nanolite rings followed by a single #4 snake then 7 or more probably 8 #2 snakes to the tip top. The ATC MicroWave is effectively two stripping guides in one reducing from 18 mm to 8 mm.

Maybe more important than stripping and running guide sizes for 8 weights and heavier is to use an over size tip top - one with a large .310" loop.

Certainly no more than two strippers necessary.

The first guide (butt end) is the stripping guide. All the rest are running guides. Adding more than one ceramic is more about giving the line a smoother surface to run across when the rod is under load from a large fish. Most of the pressure is on the lower half of the rod when it's flexed deeply on a good fish. If it makes you feel good, use a ceramic for the stripping guide and the subsequent running guide. Using 3 really isn't doing to do anything for you.

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Spin-casting lines and fly lines behave much differently. Fly line heads are probably 20X -30X greater in diameter than a spinning line, and at least 10X less flexible. There is at least as much difference between these two types of line as there is difference between spin-casting and fly-casting. I am very happy with the casting performance of the Wulff Bermuda Triangle Taper - in Warm waters!

Thanks everyone. I'm sticking to my normal practice of 2.

Thanks,
Mike J

like Tom just said ceramic guides are about fish fighting performance..if your more interested in casting distance use wire guides not ceramic but when you hook the fish of a lifetime , you,ll really appreciate the ceramic guide, probably not till then..anoher thought, test casting does not tell you as much as test fihing..tape or wrap your three ceramic guides on and fish them, maybe try it with four ceramics..as soon as you hook a fish and fight it you willl see the difference..also, if you wrap the guides on, yoiu can give them a coat of cp and then test fish for as long as you want..the cp makes it easy to remove and clean up also..



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2021 02:59PM by ben belote.

Ben: What criteria do you use to evaluate a guide's "fish fighting performance", and what size fish are you talking about?

Phil, i fly fish for mostly largemouth bass that so far range from one to eight pounds in delaware and maryland...i also use spin and cast quite a bit..it,s just my opinion that guides transfer the enerrgy from the rod to the line..the closer the line follows the flex of the rod the more efficient the transfer is..if you have too few guides the flex of the rod is distorted by the guides and is not natural...you need enough guides so that the rod flex is close to that of the flex you would get if the line were just tied to the tip..that,s the most efficient transfer of power but this takes numerous guides to maintain the proper flex...small guides make this easier without too much added weight..also the builder needs to keep wraps short and epoxy to two or less coats..i use cp to seal the wraps and only need one coat of epoxy..that keeps the weight low..saturating the wrap with epoxy to seal it then putting on two or more epoxy coats is a guide weight killer..believe me that,s more than enough epoxy..the guides are not going to fall off..lol. again i use enough guides to keep the rod flex under load as the rods natural flex under load..i hope that helps Phil.

Phil, i fly fish for mostly largemouth bass that so far range from one to eight pounds in delaware and maryland...i also use spin and cast quite a bit..it,s just my opinion that guides transfer the enerrgy from the rod to the line..the closer the line follows the flex of the rod the more efficient the transfer is..if you have too few guides the flex of the rod is distorted by the guides and is not natural...you need enough guides so that the rod flex is close to that of the flex you would get if the line were just tied to the tip..that,s the most efficient transfer of power but this takes numerous guides to maintain the proper flex...small guides make this easier without too much added weight..also the builder needs to keep wraps short and epoxy to two or less coats..i use cp to seal the wraps and only need one coat of epoxy..that keeps the weight low..saturating the wrap with epoxy to seal it then putting on two or more epoxy coats is a guide weight killer..believe me that,s more than enough epoxy..the guides are not going to fall off..lol. again i use enough guides to keep the rod flex under load as the rods natural flex under load..i hope that helps Phil.

The lighter the guides the faster the rod will straighten during the cast, but the object being cast will begin to slow down the moment the line is released. That's a well documented physical fact, popularly known as the "You can't push on a rope law". All the power of a cast is transferred at one point; the tip-top, since the line is pulled, not pushed through the guide train. The purpose of guides is simply to "tame" the line and prevent fouling - not transmit energy, power, or what-have-you. The way to improve a guide train is to minimize friction caused by the line slapping against the blank and against the guides themselves. The speed of lines being cast through different guides and guide trains could easily be measured/reported, but rod building advertisers would suffer.

Friction involves another most important factor - pressure of one surface against another. This is absolutely minimal on a fishing rod during a cast. You won't gain distance by using one set of guides or ring type over another. That sort of friction just isn't there.

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