One of my pet peeves - why don't reel seat manufacturers offer bushings that fit their seats???
Or - alternatively - at least make the I.D. of the seat compatible with existing bushings now on the market..
Herb

Herb

I'm with you, I have to buy the next size larger and turn them down to get them to fit seat the way I want. It is extra work but it's the only way to get a proper fit.

John

I tend to go with whatever bushing is a touch sloppy. Then use some narrow tape to make a couple bands over the bushing, usually about a 1/4 of the way in from each end. Just want to create a tight spot to line things up nice. Then a good coat of rod bond takes care of any play along the length of the bushing.

I go the route that John goes. If I can't find an arbor that fits the reel seat perfectly, I go a size larger and sand it down by hand to make it fit. I only use the foam arbors, so sanding them is quick and easy. But yeah, it is extra work.

A tiny percentage of builders use foam arbors, so it's probably not worth it for the reel seat companies to bother selling them.

The arbors are purposely undersized because the manufacturers know that many builders will not get the arbors reamed to a perfect concentric fit on the rod blank. If you fail to do this, then a perfectly sized arbor won't allow the seat to go on. So some small difference in size allows for a less than perfect fit.

Builders who bore their arbors on a lathe, or are simply very careful to ream them to perfectly fit the blank, don't have this problem. To them, the corresponding arbors are a sloppy fit. But the manufacturers have to build for the masses, most of who are not able to get such a precise fit.

................

I just buy the foam universal arbors and cut the lengths I need. I quit depending on the ones that come with the seats to fit. I have a whole bunch of undersized arbors that I don't use. Every once in a while I will find a use for them.

Here is a use for them. They are fragile, especialy at the edges, unitl installed with a couple coats of wrap epoxy, but after installation, they are plenty strong. I've done this many times, had one failure of a shim that had voids. Never had a failure of the light colored ones or the dark Pac Bay shims. I paint them to get a uniform, specific, color.

[www.rodbuilding.org]

Good point, Herb. I thought it was just me who does not like the fit of most foam arbors / bushings.
I am quite surprised with Billy’s reply “A tiny percentage of builders use foam arbors…” If that is the case, what do the majority use, masking tape? Drywall tape? From reading this forum, it seems as though the majority use foam arbors / bushings. I have tried the three methods above and found drywall tape a PITA so employ either .125in wide masking tape or foam. If there is a large gap to fill between the seat and blank and want to keep the weight down, I add micro spheres to the epoxy.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

I like the foam arbors and use them for most reel seats. I glue them in the reel seat and then ream to fit the blank. Have not had problems using using them. I also like dry wall tape for thin arbors. I much prefer it over masking tape, and don’t find it a PITA to use. To each their own, use what ever works best for you.
Norm

Interesting .... I use micro spheres in the plastic of a couple of soft plastic baits that I make. I use enough of the spheres in the plastic of one bait in particular, that will float a 3/0 Owner Down Shot hook. I originally made it for use as a drop shot bait, but using the amount of spheres needed to float the hook adds a lot of firmness to the soft plastic. It just doesn't have the action I was looking for in a drop shot bait. But it's a dandy little bait on a finesse Carolina rig.

By far most builders use masking tape.

If the geometry is consistent with the use of a rigid polyurethane shim, I'll choose it every time. Lighter, less affected by water if I screw up with the epoxy, easy, I like the idea of full contact between the seat and the shim.

There are several advantages in using the foam arbors. Aside from the great stiffness to weight ratio, they're just plain quick. It's a 5 minute job, or less, if you have a lathe. If not there are other creative ways to get a good fit.

...............

Thanks for the re-reply, Billy. When I first started building rods and prior to joining this forum, I employed narrow masking tape bushings for my seats = simple, cheap, easy, almost infinitely adjustable and I have not experienced a failure. After learning of the foam bushings on this forum, I tried them and was very impressed = easy to bond into the seat, (can) afford full-length support and they are just about the easiest and quickest material to ream to fit the blank. I consider foam bushings an outstanding method for mounting most seats, light-medium duty, but will rely on full, packed epoxy under the seats (with tape bushings) of heavier, >50lb builds.
I am certainly not in a position to question Mr. Vivona’s veteran observation, let alone which method he actually employs, but am simply curious as to how many builders use tape bushings in lieu of foam? Old-school VS modern yet both get the job done. I am here to learn.
Excuse me for stepping on your post Herb.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

I have a couple carbon tube seat inserts here that fit too loosely in TVS #16 seats, and I mean so loosely they will have to be arbored a bit or they won't be concentric in the seat. They actually have end play if you move them back and forth in the bore. I've built quite a few of these, and never had this problem before. This is a major annoyance, and not what I expect from Fuji. I guess we can't expect much out of shims either.

It's not old vs new - it's how almost every single class and instructional teaches using masking tape. So every single builder starts out using tape. Arbors are not easy to use, and the spade bit with pilot that is "needed" to work with them are awfully expensive, bordering on cost prohibitive for a vast majority of builders. I assume most builders try to ream the 1/4" hole out of the arbor, and end up off center reaming, crushing, or can't find a reamer small enough. THey are also quite expensive, expecially compared to tape.
Masking tape is pretty much "free", perfectly centered, and easy to install without screwing up. People build confidence doing it that way, and don't bother trying anything else.
I use the arbors.I had the jig to make the pilot spade, and was trying to work with a welder to make them for me so I could sell them. Epoxy is OK for arbors, but teh way a lot of NERBs bore stabilized wood the epoxy melts and the pilot spins off.

The original question concerned arbors that are a bit undersized for the prescribed seat. To that end, there is nothing wrong with using them as-is and applying a single wrap of fiberglass drywall tape on top to shim the shim. Usually that's all it takes.

.................

It is easier to remove material than it is to add material. That being said the designers provide arbors with small ID to be fitted to the blank but they did not apply this concept to the OD.

Yes blank diameters are not standard and vary and most cases the arbors have to be reamed, but reel seats are standard so it would be easy to provide arbors with a better fit.

If I have to rely on tape to make the arbor to work, then I really don't need an arbor I might as well use all tape.

This is another example of having to work around a deficiency to.accomplish a task.

Just trying to support Herbs' pet peeve.

Regards

John



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/30/2021 11:10PM by John DeMartini.

Foam arbors.
Foram arbors are very easy to shape and work with. Because of the issue about having arbors undersized, I just purchase the next one or two sizes larger and sand them down to the perfect fit for the inside of the reel seat.
It is so simple and so easy to do.

I have a number of various sized files of various sizes that I use for reaming. I also use one of the smaller ones to get the arbors down to the perfect size. I just insert the appropriate sized file into the hole in the arbor. Then, I chuck the file into the chuck of a variable speed drill.
I have several different width bench top belt sanders with different grit papers on each. So, I simply turn on the vertical belt sander, turn on the drill in the direction that is opposite the direction of the sanding belt and hold the arbor in place for a couple of seconds to get the perfect fit on the arbor to the reel seat and the arbor is good to go. I will then, normally glue the arbor into the reel seat and after the glue has set, ream the arbor to match the blank, using the appropriate file in the drill spinning backward, so that the circular file does not screw itself into the arbor and split it open.

A picture of the files that I have modified over the years to use as reamers. I cut off the triangle end on the file and then, chuck the file into the chuck on my lathe. Then, I use a grinding wheel to grind down the hard file metal to give a uniform shape and size for use in a drill chuck. I also grind a point on the end of each file, so that if necessary, I can use the sharpened point to enter a smaller hole as might be found in an arbor or a cork ring when building.

[www.rodbuilding.org]