I’m building myself a pretty heavy duty conventional rod and I ordered a size 22 reel seat when I probably should have gone with a 24. The thing is though, the 22 goes all the way down to basically exactly where I’m epoxying it on anyway but that’s just straight to the blank with no arbor. I usually do quick tape arbors and I’m still new to rod building so my question is, can I still epoxy my reel seat straight to the blank like that with no arbors or do I need to buy a bigger reel seat? Would it effect the bond to the rod and strength or am I overthinking this.

Take the shine off the blank with a fine scotch brand pad in the area where the reel seat will go, and glue it directly to the blank. It will be just fine.
Norm

Guy,
I will be following your post to learn what the veterans have to say; I am here to learn. Until then, my novice opinion is that, given the small gap, it might even be better to bond the seat directly to the blank if the following are performed; 1. Heavily scuff the blank and the ID of the seat, 2. Put a good chamfer on the ID of the butt end of the seat to promote the paste epoxy being forced into / under the seat rather than scraping it off as it is positioned onto the blank, 3. While many may not approve of tape arbors, a .125in wide tape arbor .5in in from the front of the seat will keep it aligned / centered to the blank but make sure there is plenty of epoxy on both sides. You might be able to simply eyeball it without an arbor, 4. As you are installing the seat with a twisting motion back-and-forth, keep packing the epoxy into the gap between the seat and blank to keep the cavity filled completely.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

The only way a tape arbor can fail is if it gets wet. If the rod is built properly, and the tape is encapsulated in epoxy, it will never get wet. The usual complaint about tape is that they are heavy, but in this case there won't be much of it, and the rod is already pretty heavy, so that's not a problem. I would do a tape arbor as required to get a sliip fit and don't skimp on the epoxy. Look at the library for advice on scuffing the blank and ID of the seat.

A good way to scuff the ID of seats is to mount a piece of ScotchBrite in the patch holder of a shotgun cleaning rod and spin it with a drill driver. inside the seat.

[www.rodbuilding.org]

The only purpose of an arbor is to take up any space between the seat and blank. If there is no space to take up, just scour the mating surfaces and adhere directly.

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The reason for an arbor is to create a tight, centered fit between the reel seat, and blank. If you already have a tight fit, then an arbor isn't required, and will decrease sensitivity. You do have to make sure that the epoxy flows between the seat, and blank material. A very light scuffing of the inner diameter of the seat, and on the blank is all that's needed.. If it was me, I would smear the entire blank surface where the seat will be, with paste rod building epoxy. Even if some is scraped away, There will be an epoxy film between the seat, and blank, Like the motor oil film between crankshaft bearings, and the crankshaft. That epoxy film will cure. cementing the real to the blank. Epoxy thickness is not what creates the bond strength. Complete contact between material joined does that. Think how thin liquid Cyanoacrylate (Super Glue, Crazy Glue) are, and how strong a bond they create, when materials are clean, and joined properly.

Tight Lies and frisky fish

RJF

My most successful builds were directly mounted to the blank. As noted before by Norman Miller and in the linked Ralph O'Quinn article, it is crucial to prepare and clean the surface and the inside of the reel seat. I do this by reaming the inside if the seat/insert. Just know that when you glue it you do need to leave some space for the epoxy to fill. If you try to push too far down the blank the epoxy will make it slide up the taper.

If you put an American Tackle G2 onto an NFC SJ736 you will have an arbor-less setup that is out of this world for size 16 seat lovers.

A.P.

Get an easy slip fit, don't skimp on epoxy. Tight is not right. But these terms are subjective, so one's interpretation of "tight" is not the same as others. By slip I mean the parts move easily when dry, don't have to be forced to move relative to each other, but don't have significant slop either. It's a judgment thing. Robert's tight is probably the same thing as my easy slip fit.

All good advice. Keep in mind the epoxy will act as a lubricant and your tight fit might feel a little sloppy when it comes time to line everything up. Should not require any arbor or bushing. I like to glue up in stages so I have something solid to to back the reelseat up to. In your case I would glue up the rear grip and let cure then glue up the reelseat. Find it much easier to manage only one thing moving and excess epoxy only coming out of one spot.

Mark can you please expound regarding chamfering the reel seat. I have never heard of that being done. Thank you.

Never use paste epoxy for adhering reel seats. We may be talking about the same thing if were are referring to a gel type like Rod Bond.

A chamfer is simply a cut or taper on the edge of the reel seat that allows epoxy to be captured and spread as the seat is brought down over and down to its desired location. If the edge of the seat is square and you have a close fit, the epoxy tends to be pushed ahead of the seat rather than being captured under it. A chamfer helps trap and spread the epoxy between the mating parts.

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Tom, please explain the difference between paste epoxy and Rod Bond, if you would be so kind.

Excuse me if I used an incorrect term regarding epoxy; I was referring to “gel” type epoxies rather than the stated “paste” epoxies; by the way, U40 Rod Bond is what I use.
Richard, hopefully Tom answered your “chamfer” question for me; if not, let me know and I will attempt to clarify better.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

There are three basic viscosities in epoxy - the "liquid" types such as the standard Flex Coat rod builders' epoxy and similar (Devcon, etc.), the gel types such as RodBond, etc., and the paste types such as PC7 and similar. The latter are considered "gap filling" epoxies and are quite thick, beyond perhaps even peanut butter consistency. They have their place, but rarely in custom rod building.

.............

In my opinion, a paste epoxy and a gel epoxy are probably the same thing. Both ProPaste and U40 Rod Bond were designed for rod building tasks and both have the consistency of tooth paste, I think the term paste is used more often to describe them then gel. There are liquid epoxies (such as flex coat rod builders epoxy, proGlu, Devon two ton, etc), and epoxy putties (like PC7, and JB Weld epoxy putties, among others). When you mention paste or gel epoxy, I know what you are talking about.
Norm

Michael Danek Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Get an easy slip fit, don't skimp on epoxy. Tight
> is not right. But these terms are subjective, so
> one's interpretation of "tight" is not the same as
> others. By slip I mean the parts move easily when
> dry, don't have to be forced to move relative to
> each other, but don't have significant slop
> either. It's a judgment thing. Robert's tight is
> probably the same thing as my easy slip fit.


Too true/

Tight Lies and frisky fish

RJF

Paste epoxy think dry wall compound. Gel think wheel bearing grease.

For reel seat assembly, I have never found any need for anything different than standard 2-part slow drying epoxy.
There is no need for paste, or gel epoxy because, there should really be no large gaps to fill when installing reel seats.
To the contrary, the fit should be just a nice slip fit that allows a thin layer of conventional epoxy to be used to adhere the reel seat to the rod blank.

Best wishes

l

For reel seat assembly, I have never found any need for anything different than standard 2-part slow drying epoxy.
There is no need for paste, or gel epoxy because, there should really be no large gaps to fill when installing reel seats.
To the contrary, the fit should be just a nice slip fit that allows a thin layer of conventional epoxy to be used to adhere the reel seat to the rod blank.

Best wishes

l