I was reading the thread about some ideas for nylon thread colors on a dark blank, and silk thread was mentioned. It made me curious. I am looking at a site that offers Kimono silk thread. They have some beautiful colors available, and I really think I want to give them a try. But I need to know some things first.

My first questions are .... the thread this site offers is 100 wt. How close is that to size A thread?

Two .... I wrap with pretty high thread tension. Meaning, I have to apply a pretty good amount of pressure when I do the final alignment of my guides before applying finish. Is silk similar to nylon as far as being able to handle higher thread tensions while wrapping?

Three ... How is it on wrap finishing pull throughs? As I said earlier, I use high thread tension when wrapping. Would silk hold up when pulling through under a tight wrap?

Fourth .... Does silk have a problem with creating fuzzies when packing or burnishing wraps?

That's about the only questions that come to mind at the moment. Any help or maybe other things to look for when using silk thread would be greatly appreciated

Thanks guys !!!

Like all things, as soon as you try to pigeon hole anything into nice neat packages, you fail miserably. I know other threads are prone to fuzzies, while others not so much, doesn't matter the material. Your going to have to experiment like all the rest of us when you venture afield.

Kimono 100 wt is a smaller diameter than nylon size A. YLI makes a 50 wt that is darn near size A. The only issue with 100 wt or smaller diameter silk is the guide feet preparations need to be well done; you can sometimes get away with a poorly prepared guide foot using size A or larger nylon but probably not with 100 wt or less silk.

I've no idea why you wrap with excess tension and I have no experience with what I would consider excess tension.

Excessive burnishing can produce fuzzies, but if I remember correctly excessive burnishing can do ugly things to nylon. With firm tension that permits a guide's position to be adjusted a bit prior to applying epoxy or spar, neither pull throughs, nor packing, nor light burnishing are problems.

Make sure the silk you select is sold by a reputable retailer for use wrapping guides. I've never had and epoxy compatibility issue with silk but then have only purchased from folks representing their silks are suitable for rod building.

If your into vibrant colors and translucence you got to try silk.

Spencer, thank you for the response. I appreciate it. I know it's going to come down to experimentation and learning the what not to do's with products that are new to you. I was just trying to get an idea of what to expect.

Donald, thank you as well for the response. Much appreciated. I was hoping to hear from you, as it was your post in a the previously mentioned thread, that got me researching using silk thread. The site I was viewing the Kimono thread on was a site for custom fly rod builders, so assume I would be good to go as far as the thread being aimed at rod builders.

What you mention concerning guide foot prep is something I was wondering about, so I am glad you mentioned it. Because I wrap under high thread tension, I will hit the ends of guides with thicker feet with a file to add a little texture to the ramp at the tip of the foot. It keeps the thread from sliding down the foot and bunching at the tip. I suspected that might be a no no with silk thread so it is something I will have to adjust when I give silk a try. I wrap with higher tension than probably most do, because when I first started out I wasn't wrapping with enough tension (at least I felt so) and my guides were very easy to move around. Sometimes even a slight bump would knock them pretty far out of alignment. So I suppose I went to the other extreme. Other than the final guide adjustment prior to applying finish being a little tough, it really hasn't caused me any problems. At least as of yet. I do back the tension off as I move towards the tip of the rod, but the tip still deflects, even on some of my higher powered blanks.

As far as burnishing goes .... I take care to pack my wraps tightly as I go, so I rarely do any burnishing, but I do from time to time if I notice a little bump in a wrap. As far as pull thoughs go. I would occasionally have problems with my pull through thread breaking, so I made a loop out of 30# test braided line that I had lying around. I don't have problems with the loop breaking now, but I do have a little problem with the pull through starting under the wrap. It looks like I am going to get some lighter line to make a pull through loop out of.

Has anyone ever tried using 4# mono for their pull through loop? I am wondering how well it would hold up?

And thank you for the information relating to the size of 100 wt as it compares to size A nylon, as well as the mentioning of 50 wt silk. I was able to find a site carrying the 50 wt YLI that you mentioned. Gonna be doing some ordering in the near future.

Again, thank you guys for your responses. I appreciate them.

It's not about guide foot texture. You want a thin toe with a smooth, shallow ramp up.

If you need 30# braid for a tie off loop my guess is your tension is way too high. And some braids contain contaminates to help them run smoothly through guides. That's good for casting and is a potential issue with epoxy. I use white (dyed white not natural white) 50 wt silk for pull through loops. White is easy to see when you need it. They do wear out quickly but a 100 yard spool is a near lifetime supply.

By the way, the looser the silk wrap the better the translucence. If you ever want clear or ghost wraps the last thing you want is overly tight, rock hard packed wraps. THE SECRET to translucent or clear wraps is for the finish to fill all the too small to see air pockets in the silk. If the wraps are too tightly wrapped or packed then air remains trapped in the silk and makes a mess usually referred to as the shimmers.

really good stuff Donald!

The differences you have using 100wt silk are, more wrap turns to cover guide feet and no stretch that you get with nylon. Silk thread is very strong!

Donald, thank you for your additional response. I really appreciate it.

I know what you mean about wanting a nice shallow ramp. I have zero problems with thread sliding on the smaller single foot KB and KT guides I've been using on my last few builds. As for the larger thicker footed guides, Admittedly, I am a little reluctant to take a lot off the ends to really shallow up the ramp. I'll have to lose that reluctance. Not just for using silk thread, but because it will help with nylon thread as well.

I really don't need 30 # braid to use as a pull through loop. It's just what I had lying around, and I wanted something that I didn't have to worry about breaking at an inopportune time. It's not that I have the pull through thread breaking all that often, I just wanted to eliminate the possibility completely. As far as coatings on some braided lines. Oh yeah .... I am definitely aware of that. The 30# line I had lying around was well used. Pretty much all of the color was gone, so I figured any waxy coating it may have had, was gone too. Haven't had a problem with any contamination on my wraps from using it, so I figure I am good to go.

What you mentioned concerning tightly packed wraps with silk thread is interesting. One of my pet peeves is when after applying finish, I find an gap in a wrap where I can see the blank between the thread. I can see I am definitely going to have to do more than a few practice wraps to get a feel for the silk. Again, thank you for your additional response.

Phil, thank you for your response. Your response headed off a question I was going to ask concerning stretch. Question? If silk thread doesn't stretch, how much thread tension are you wrapping with? I think adjusting my thread tension, while needed, I going to be the hardest thing for me to get used to. I have this thought in my mind that because of the way I fight and land fish, I want to be sure my guides are on the blank quite tightly. I'm going to have to adjust that thinking as well.

Once again, thank you guys for the responses. You're really helping me out, and I truly appreciate it.