Does Permagloss attack the Tru-Oil finish on bamboo fly rods? I know I can test it on another surface coated with Tru-Oil, but if someone reports that it does attack Tru-Oil, I won't bother. thanks

Tru-oil is more of a shellac than an actual oil. It does dry hard. However, you'll have to test it with the PG. I think you'll be okay but I have never attempted to put PG over Tru-Oil.

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just curious, would tru-oil make a good color preserver / finish on wraps since it is more of a shellac..

Ben,
I suspect that the tru - oil is being used on the bamboo - not necessarily the threads.

This would be the same thing that Permagloss is being used on. i.e. one normally uses permagloss on a blank --- before a rod is wrapped. Normally the guides and wraps are placed on top of the perma gloss - not under the permagloss.

PermaGloss also makes an excellent thread wrap coating, although it does not offer the same look at epoxy.

I would not use Tru-Oil as a CP. It will darken the threads considerably.

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Thanks Tom..

I'm looking for a more traditional, thinner, look on the threads than normal epoxy. I'm debating with myself over doing thin epoxy or Permagloss. The blank is finished with Tru-Oil. But inevitably there will be some wrap finish getting on the blank at the blank edges, and I have to cover the inscription. I did put some Permagloss over some spilled Tru-Oil on my bottle and the Tru-Oil doesn't appear to be affected at all.

Michael,
With PG being so “hot”, I would have thought it would have attacked the underlying Tru-Oil in your small, quick test. I suggest you conduct another test on a larger surface to confirm, the inscription as well, whether ink, paint or decal. Personally, I would use epoxy for the inscription as a thicker “lens” is usually desired and the longer cure time may help with self-leveling over a larger area. I have been very pleased with the results of PG used as a thread finish when a minimal coating is desired. Actually, it is so thin that a second coat is usually applied. That being said, virtually the same can be accomplished with low viscosity epoxy thread finish (especially CTS Crystal Coat); glob it on to ensure full penetration / saturation and then use a dry brush to wick off enough to accomplish your desired look / protection.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

Thanks, Mark. Makes sense.

I wouldn’t personally use PG on Tru-Oil. It appears that Tru-Oil is a proprietary mixture of mineral-based paint thinners, oil based varnish, and linseed or tung oil. Minus the often present Japan drier, these have been the common components for centuries in all sorts of oil type finish products. Traditionally or for more upmarket uses, the oil varnish components would replaced with beetle excretions, also known as “shellac”. Regardless, I wouldn’t trust these components to be able to resist being damaged by components in PG.

The Xylene in PG alone makes me agree with Kendall. Don’t get me wrong, PG is great stuff and I use it all the time. But Xylene is nasty, toxic stuff and extreme care needs to be employed when using it.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

Double post, please delete



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/13/2021 02:24AM by Kendall Cikanek.

I suspect that unless procedures were used that had laboratory grade levels of accuracy and repeatability, that results could vary between tests. The xylene could evaporate enough before tru-oil softened in one test and not do so in another if concentrations of the products and factors such as temperature varied. There aren’t a great deal of solids in Tru-oil.

Both products contain multiple organic distillates and other chemicals that could combine in different ways if curing was interrupted. Some of the components of the Tru-oil can also be dangerous if released and allowed to become chemically active. For example, linseed oil spontaneously combusts in contact with cotton and other materials. The worse thing that is likely to happen, because of how little Tru-oil should be on the rod, is something in a created stew permanently penetrating into the bamboo. An oil/wood ester (xylene got that name for a reason)/benzene/etc. mix would readily soak into the bamboo.

I was just wondering about whether the Tru-Oil would be attacked by Permaseal. I didn't think I was at risk of poisoning or burning down the world.

There will be no oil-wet rags stashed in a box in the garage. No sniffing of fumes. My Permaseal has been kept sealed in a plastic bag in the fridge, the Tru-Oil is fresh. I'm only dealing with fractions of ounces. I think we can survive this.

I'd still like to hear from someone who has actually put Permaseal onto Tru-Oil. Sorry for the sarcasm.

Michael,
Permaseal? I thought we were talking about PermaGloss. Sorry if I misunderstood.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

There are some knock-off PG type products which are also moisture curing urethanes.

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I have used PG on some old bamboo fly rods that were probably varnished at one time, with no bad effects. Have not used tru-oil before, but just put some PG on a piece of wood that had been finished with teak-oil a while back, and nothing bad happened. I’ll want until tomorrow to see if it cured ok.
Norm

I took organic chemistry in college (which is probably not much better at this point in my life than having stayed at a Holiday Inn????), worked with various VOC’s during stages of my career and in personal interests, know a few woodworkers and a couple of gunsmiths who use various types of oil and urethane finishes, and I am married to a chemist. I’ve also dealt with many MSDS’s in a federal workplace. Will a fraction of a milligram of a consumer product in a dried film cause death, fire, and destruction when mixed with another? … not likely. The problem, though, is that there is a fairly long list of known to be reactive compounds involved. Moisture, temperature, and product concentrations all control various reactions of these. The potential for results to vary is very real. Permagloss is known to dissolve different kinds of paints. Tru-oil is absolutely not a paint, but it is unlikely that it was specifically formulated to withstand contact with moisture cured urethanes.

My favorite wood finish is actually a mix of oils and urethane. It was formulated by Sam Maloof. Sam was perhaps the greatest woodworker in American History. Wood finishes seem to be a lot like beer in that a few ingredients have been prepared a bit differently and mixed together in different concentrations to create thousands of different products. Please don’t drink wood finishes, though. Sam’s product isn’t moisture cured and it doesn’t set hard like PG. It doesn’t contain xylene, benzene, and other components of PG. I would still be cautious in how it mixed with other finishes on something that was important to me. Porous, cellulose based materials are quite resistant to some chemicals and easily damaged by others. The bamboo itself could be stained or softened. The glue or epoxy holding the bamboo strips together could also be compromised. That is admittedly a few “could’s” with no certainty of a “will definitely happen”. I know just enough to think that outcomes are likely to be uncertain unless quite a bit of testing is done under various conditions, or a real chemist delves into the question.

are not most woods treated with a primer/sealer first, then finished..that,s why it,s a good idea to seal rod wraps before finishing..less to no bubbles and much better finsh leveling without having to saturate the wrap with the finish..

"Michael,
Permaseal? I thought we were talking about PermaGloss. Sorry if I misunderstood." No, you got it right, I have a mental block on the name, I guess. I was asking about Permagloss.