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Re: Rod Speed
Posted by: Terry Kirk (---)
Date: September 13, 2021 05:25AM

I try not to let the hoopla get to me. As i long as I end up with a rod that pushes my line accurately to the target and it's powerful enough to drag in my quarry I'm good. If it does that fast and has some soulful feeling in the process, then that's just a bonus for me.

Re: Rod Speed
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---.res.spectrum.com)
Date: September 13, 2021 08:31AM

Thank you, Robert. Shooters deal in feet per second, yards, foot pounds, pounds per square inch, not "smooth" or "speedy" or "far" or "soulful". This could be caused by the difference between realists and romantics: The difference between facts and imagination. A fish pole is still a tool, not a magic wand, regardless of merchandising hype.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/13/2021 08:34AM by Phil Ewanicki.

Re: Rod Speed
Posted by: ben belote (---.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
Date: September 13, 2021 08:56AM

w henever i see the word "action" i change it to the word "taper" which is a more static discription of a rods tip section..

Re: Rod Speed
Posted by: jim spooner (---)
Date: September 14, 2021 09:00AM

I seldom build rods anymore, but when I do, I buy top-of-the-line blanks (SC5s, NFC HMs), which generally gets me comparable blanks within a given power/action. I’ve always found it frustrating to compare the material composition/construction of mid-level blanks. Example: SC3 vs. NFC IMs.
I think Tom has eloquently stated the meaning of “speed” (reacts and recovers) and I’d like to hear more of what advantages that higher speed gives to an angler. Beside the obvious lightening of the rod tip (less mass) and overall weight saving that might contribute to better sensitivity (stiffness to weight ratio), I think it also increases lure speed…further casts and less tip “wobble”, enhancing line flow thru guides.
I guess bottom line is higher rod speed is a good thing.

Re: Rod Speed
Posted by: Fred Zimmermann (---.raintreegraphics.com)
Date: September 14, 2021 10:10AM

ben belote Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
rod speed/recovery rate is important to me because i like the slower fiberglass and not the faster graphite rods.
>


Ditto.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/14/2021 10:19AM by Fred Zimmermann.

Re: Rod Speed
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: September 14, 2021 10:24AM

Inherent rod speed is a function of the blank. It does not change.

Speed
"Within the confines of rod building it is generally used to define the rate of response and/or recovery of a rod."

The speed of a rod tip generated by someone moving or casting it, is a different issue and is neither an inherent nor relative characteristic of a rod. You've introduced an outside element that is not inherent in the rod.

...............

Re: Rod Speed
Posted by: jim spooner (---)
Date: September 14, 2021 10:35AM

Tom, how do you see a higher rod speed being advantageous to an angler.

Re: Rod Speed
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: September 14, 2021 11:10AM

I don't know that a higher rod speed is advantageous to an angler, unless it is. And that's something only the angler can decide. Some anglers don't like higher speed rods. Some do. Some prefer slower speeds for the way they fish. Some techniques may be better performed with a speed that falls within a certain range.

For most of what I do, I like a higher speed rod. But when I pull crank baits on troll, I don't. It just depends on what you're doing.

..............

Re: Rod Speed
Posted by: jim spooner (---)
Date: September 14, 2021 11:38AM

I think casting 2 rods, 1 "fast", 1 "slow" (same power/AA), with the same effort (same rod length, same blank rotation speed provided by the caster), the faster speed rod will perform better….as I stated in my previous post. The advantage/disadvantage may be subjective. The dynamics or physics might be irrelevant to most anglers, but it’d be nice to have a basic understanding. Regardless, I wish I preferred the slower speeds/lower resonance….the blanks are much cheaper (Ha). Btw, it's understood that 2 rods with identical power/AA can also have different characteristics that might affect casting performance.

Re: Rod Speed
Posted by: ben belote (---.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
Date: September 14, 2021 12:59PM

the main advantige of graphite is better sensetivity..but with the advent of the newer super braids i find that i can get as much sensetivity with glass (E or S) and still get the fish fighting qualities of glass,especially with cranking lures..i can build an e-glass rod for less than $40 with mud hole retail..i cut back the rod to 4 or 5 feet to reduce weight and help increase sensetivity..it,s as light as a 6 foot graphit rod but the 10# braid on my spin reel is what makes this possible

Re: Rod Speed
Posted by: Robert Flowers (---.res6.spectrum.com)
Date: September 14, 2021 01:07PM

From what read about CSS, rod seed = reaction/recovery time of the rod blank. To me, this means that a faster rod speed will more quickly transfer energy applied by the caster to the line, and that at the end of the casting stroke, will dampen oscillations faster. This will allow the line to cast further with the same effort than a rod with a slower speed. More energy to the line, and less friction through the guides is provided by a faster speed, not to be confused with rod action. Rod action may be more important for trolling, jigging, jerking, while speed might be more important for cast, or flippiing, ) In my rods, I want power enough (durability to land the fish I'm after without worrying about breaking the rod), I want sensitivity, and good feedback of what the line is doing on the back-cast/forward cast. To me, a slower action will be better at finesse fly fishing, such as laying a fly gently on the water, where a faster action will produce further casts, though Mrs. Wolfe obtained world record distance casts with Winston fly rods, which are moderate action rods. Even slow action rods, with the correct line, and power, will cast heavy lures against the wind, if used properly. But the still will benefit from good rod speed, IMO.

I hope I'm not just blathering, and am making sense.

Tight Lies and frisky fish

RJF

Re: Rod Speed
Posted by: ben belote (---.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
Date: September 14, 2021 01:33PM

does not a fiberglass 4wt. rod do the same work of a 4wt. graphite rod only with a longer stroke and time?

Re: Rod Speed
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: September 14, 2021 01:44PM

Robert Flowers Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> From what read about CSS, rod seed =
> reaction/recovery time of the rod blank. To me,
> this means that a faster rod speed will more
> quickly transfer energy applied by the caster to
> the line, and that at the end of the casting
> stroke, will dampen oscillations faster. This
> will allow the line to cast further with the same
> effort than a rod with a slower speed. More
> energy to the line, and less friction through the
> guides is provided by a faster speed, not to be
> confused with rod action. Rod action may be more
> important for trolling, jigging, jerking, while
> speed might be more important for cast, or
> flippiing, ) In my rods, I want power enough
> (durability to land the fish I'm after without
> worrying about breaking the rod), I want
> sensitivity, and good feedback of what the line is
> doing on the back-cast/forward cast. To me, a
> slower action will be better at finesse fly
> fishing, such as laying a fly gently on the water,
> where a faster action will produce further casts,
> though Mrs. Wolfe obtained world record distance
> casts with Winston fly rods, which are moderate
> action rods. Even slow action rods, with the
> correct line, and power, will cast heavy lures
> against the wind, if used properly. But the still
> will benefit from good rod speed, IMO.
>
> I hope I'm not just blathering, and am making
> sense.

You are correct. Only thing to add is that rod for rod, a faster action typically increases rod speed, versus a slower action in the same material. Action influences rod speed, but rod speed does not influence action.

......

Re: Rod Speed
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: September 14, 2021 04:38PM

CCS has nothing to do with "rod speed." It's about action, how the rod bends, and power, how powerful the rod is (what weight it will load well with while casting, what force does it take to deflect it, etc)

Too bad many years ago we got sucked into descriptions of rod bending characteristics using terms more suited for describing velocity.

Re: Rod Speed
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: September 14, 2021 09:03PM

The CCF component measures comparative rod "speed." Note the definition of rod speed in the glossary and the reference to velocity.


.............

Re: Rod Speed
Posted by: ben belote (---.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
Date: September 15, 2021 08:34AM

i think the higher the modulus and the higher the frequency of the rod the poorer the fish fighting tool you have..give me a lower modulus and lower frequency rod for smoother fish fighting, with braided line to supply sensetivity..i just don,t think your going to get sensetivity and fish fighting quality from the same source..

Re: Rod Speed
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---.res.spectrum.com)
Date: September 15, 2021 08:52AM

Anglers who troll or fish with bait probably account for the majority of man hours spent sport fishing. Fishing techniques differ, and the ideal characteristics for the right blank, the right components, and the right build vary according to how the rod will be used. Building the right tool (rod) for the right task (fishing) is complicated when "speed" is a place rather than a movement and accuracy is produced by the rod blank, not the caster.

Re: Rod Speed
Posted by: ben belote (---.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
Date: September 15, 2021 09:08AM

Phil, don,t get distracted by all the noise..yes, there are many ways to hook a fish but they all end up in a fight..so you best have a good tool/rod..fin vs. fist..lol.

Re: Rod Speed
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: September 15, 2021 09:50AM

Speed is not a "place" insofar as how it is used regarding fishing rods. It is reaction/recovery time.

.......

Re: Rod Speed
Posted by: jim spooner (---)
Date: September 15, 2021 10:45AM

Ben,
Sometimes there are trade-offs in rod characteristics when considering casting vs fish-fighting attributes. For many of us, we make far more casts than we spend fighting fish, so casting “performance” of the rod becomes more relevant.

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