Rod speed is irrelevant. It changes with very cast, and is a function of two references, the rod length, and the speed of blank rotation provided by the caster. The caster changes casting speed based on target distance.

Rod , action, as stated above, is usually identified by the terms fast, extra fast, slow, moderate fast, etc. describes where the rod flexes under load. It's that simple.

That's all ther is to it.

Tight Lies and frisky fish

RJF

rod speed/recovery rate is important to me because i like the slower fiberglass and not the faster graphite rods.

I was refering to rod speed ast tip speed, or the speed that tht rid tip moves from point a to point b during the cast. Rod action, is described by the rod makers as fast, medium fast, slow, etc, and is what you are refering to, and is governed by the stiffness of the blank along its blank at various points. Fast rods have very little bend from the butt to 2/3rds of the wayto the tip. Slow rod action blanks (like many fiberglass blanks) bend almost to the grip. Noodles are very flexible along the blank. The nomenclature can be confusing.So yes, rod action is important to you. Rod tip speed, not so much.

Tight Lies and frisky fish

RJF

i stand corrected..

All rods will flex deeply into the butt area once enough load has been applied to them. This is why action is considered as being where the rod INITIALLY flexes. Taper is perhaps the greatest factor in terms of rod action. Action is not influenced by the material used to build the rod or blank. You can build a fast action bamboo rod just as easily as you can build a slow action graphite rod.

Rod speed is another inherent property of all rods and blanks. It refers to how quickly a rod reacts and recovers (it has nothing to do with the angler). Speed is relative to a number of things including action (taper), material, modulus, weight, length, design, etc. Taper and material are perhaps the two things that most greatly influence rod "speed." It is difficult to build a glass rod with a high rod speed just as it is difficult to build a graphite rod with a low rod speed. The difference in stiffness-to-weight ratio between the materials makes this so.

Action and speed are not the same thing, although action influences speed, but speed does not influence action.

...............

Tom Kirkman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> All rods will flex deeply into the butt area once
> enough load has been applied to them. This is why
> action is considered as being where the rod
> INITIALLY flexes. Taper is perhaps the greatest
> factor in terms of rod action. Action is not
> influenced by the material used to build the rod
> or blank. You can build a fast action bamboo rod
> just as easily as you can build a slow action
> graphite rod.
>
> Rod speed is another inherent property of all rods
> and blanks. It refers to how quickly a rod reacts
> and recovers (it has nothing to do with the
> angler). Speed is relative to a number of things
> including action (taper), material, modulus,
> weight, length, design, etc. Taper and material
> are perhaps the two things that most greatly
> influence rod "speed." It is difficult to build a
> glass rod with a high rod speed just as it is
> difficult to build a graphite rod with a low rod
> speed. The difference in stiffness-to-weight ratio
> between the materials makes this so.
>
> Action and speed are not the same thing, although
> action influences speed, but speed does not
> influence action.
>
> ...............

Tom. you did a much better, and more accurate description of rod speed, and action than /i did. Nice job. The speed I was referring to was tip speed, not rod speed. Sorry for the confusing description.

Tight Lies and frisky fish

RJF

HA HA, YOU ALL TOOK THE BAIT, CONGRATS PHIL ANOTHER FINE Catch!

I will always try to help by sharing any knowledge I have. It's my nature. There were some who posted that they wanted more info. Those of us who responded, and tried to give requested info, in my book, are doing things right, in spite of the reasons Phil is opening these threads. That's my view.

Tight Lies and frisky fish

RJF

So "rod speed" refers to where a rod bends. Got it. What does the term a "fast rod" or a "fast action rod" mean? Can "fast" be measured in a blank or rod, and if so how? I hear this term frequently but have no idea what it means? BTW 99.999% of the time "speed" refers to movement [or a drug], not a location. Please do not scold or mock my ignorance or label me a troll. It neither becomes you or enlightens me.

No, rod speed does not refer to were a rod bends. Action, refers to where a rod initially flexes. These terms come from the vernacular of dozens of rod and blank manufacturers dating back 60 years or more - 100% of the time "fast" or "slow" refers to where the rod initially flexes.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/11/2021 03:49PM by Tom Kirkman.

Phil,
Request #4 to enlighten all of us as to your procedure to measure and assign a representative number to your targeted “rod speed”. You stated “...rod tip speed, which is quite easily determined…”. There are those of us who might benefit from your astuteness.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

How about we clamp the rod, tip up, in a vertical position and deflect the rod from vertical for, say one third of its length, release it, and TIME how long it takes the tip top to get back to where it started from? I myself would be more interested in such information than being informed that the rod was "slow" or "fast", etc. and I am confident that many other rod builders and rod buyers would find such information less confusing and more useful than being informed a blank or a rod is "medium slow" - or even "medium fast"!

The terms "medium, slow and fast" do not refer to time in fishing rod vernacular. They refer to a specific percentage of blank length.

..........

OK, Phil. We do that. And we find that blank A is a little faster that blank B. So what? Is a Brand X , blank A, that is a little faster than a Sage which has a reputation for fine casting, warranty, predictability, and durability, better than the Sage.? More what I want to buy?

Just what are you trying to accomplish. ? These posts about "soulful" just go on and on, and I wonder what you are trying to accomplish. In my opinion, they are infantile and pretty tiresome.bu

Phil,
“How about we…” is certainly not as definite as your earlier remark “... rod tip speed, which is quite easily determined…”. Yet again, please afford us with YOUR intellectual method to measure it and then determine and assign a related number. Of course, “easily” is a relative term and I am surprised you would use such a vague expression. What may be easy for you may be quite difficult, involved or require specialized equipment for the rest of us less gifted. Redundantly, we are here to learn = teach us rather than preach to us.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

Ok Phil, you’ve measured a time now in your scenario. That still isn’t a speed. How are you calculating the distance? Because you are deflecting the rod, it’s not quite a segment of a circle that you are looking for. Because of the variation in stiffness of the blank changes along it’s length it isn’t likely to be elliptical, or even hyperbolic if you want a precise calculation.

The time measurement that you describe is 1/4 of the period of oscillation when the blank is deflected that amount which is nothing more than one divided by the frequency. By deflecting the blank 1/3 of its length, the period and frequency (slightly longer period and lower frequency) are not the same as the natural or resonant frequency which is defined by being measured with small oscillations.

So, as you have spelled it out, a measurement of frequency is what you want. From there you manipulate the number to get the info for which you seek.

However this tip speed you seek tells you nothing because it is generated by that useless potential energy stored in the rod that can’t be used to “push a rope” even though the tip is pulling the line as that stored energy is being transferred to the line.

I believe the subject Phil is pushing is the silliness and mumbo jumbo that fly rod manufacturers and marketers constantly spill onto the fly fishing market regardless their rods' qualities. However, we're all rod builders here and thus we understand what nonsense it is. So these type posts would have more effect, if any, made on any of the popular fly fishing sites where the users are the ones buying those rods and the flowery descriptions.

.............

Phil is just just being Phil.. he,s not forcing anyone to read his posts which are mostly harmless clap trap 0ccasionly spiced with some things of interest..lol..thank God we,re perfect..lol.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/12/2021 10:33AM by ben belote.

I advise and coach novice fly rod casters, some of whom immerse themselves in the arcane vocabulary of fly-casting where, for example, "fast" refers to a place, not motion, and "soft" means whippy, not light to the touch. They believe that somehow the fly rod pushes the fly line. They believe that the most expensive rods cast better than cheaper rods. They first buy a different fly rod rather than a different fly line to get better casting performance from their equipment. Can't blame them. Fly tackle marketers encourage and perpetuate such nonsense. I just wish rods were described somewhere with terms such as inches and fractions of inches, where a rod tip is deflected by a weight identified in ounces or grams, and what fraction of a second it takes a rod blank to return to its at rest position after being deflected, say, a third of it's length. Beats being told to buy the blank which has a "smooth" or "fast" or "powerful " or "medium" or "soulful action". Honestly.

Phi;, I understand your frustration, and don't think you are baiting us. I too wish that there were better, more reliable descriptions. I have a friend who loves Winston rods, as the soft tip action protect the Tippet. He also loves the feedback he gets from the rod on both the back, and forward casts. However, though he is an experienced, and successful fly fisherman, he could not accurately define rod speed, and uses his understanding of fast, medium, and slow action/ And he's no dummy. He is very close to getting his doctorate in biology, and works full time as a biologist, helping track, and catalogue fish, and wildlife, and monitor/eradicate plant, aquatic, and insect invasive species in Michigan.

The can you opened is dark with no firm directions. Terminology is fluid, ever changing. All you can do is to try and help people through the vocabulary maze, trying to be as accurate as possible..

Tight Lies and frisky fish

RJF