I decided it would be fun to put together a vintage bait-casting rig from that period (vintage rod, reel, line and lure) and try some old-school fishing.
I was able to refurbish a bait-casting reel (circa 1940-1950) into working order, and picked up a fair period appropriate rod on @#$%&.

My though was that I could just replace the old corroded guides and I'd be all set.

I did a line test and found that at a moderate bend, the line goes below the blank in three places.
So it seems obvious that I'll need to add a guide or two and position all the guides to where I'll get a more reasonable line feed.

My question though is...this rod was made in the 1950s. It looks factory made to me. Was the fact that the line went below the blank under load not a concern back then? Did the old silk or braided nylon lay differently on teh rod than mono does?

The rod is a 5 1/2 foot (unbranded) bait casting rod with a very light (whippy) action and only has 4 guides on it (including the tip-top).

I'm just wondering if anyone has insight as to how the older vintage rods guide placement was done.

Thanks,

-Dan-

I wouldn't worry about the old days, I'd install guides as per the article in the library.

Daniel,
You ask a very valid question but the answers vary. If you are RESTORING the rod, build it just as it was with NOS or refurbished components from that era. Similar with REFURBISHING. If you are REBUILDING the rod, newer components and concepts can be employed; better seat, better guides, better guide spacing. Unless it is an heirloom, has sentimental value, or you were lucky to have found a $10,000 rod at a yard sale for $2.00, consider REBUILDING it; parts are easily available, possibly even cheaper and almost certainly better. There is nothing better to me or many of my customers than fishing a nostalgic, vintage Conolon blank adorned with modern components and concepts which produces a rod incomparable to what was available back then = best of both worlds.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

Daniel,
Since this is a vintage rod, I would replace the guides in exactly the same spot as they were when the rod was new.

It doesn't make any difference if the line goes 3 inches below the rod blank. You have a restored Vintage rod!

By the way, the rod will catch fish just fine with this wide guide spacing. When you hook a fish, just point the rod straight at the fish and then there will be no bend in the rod. Just winch the rod in and boat it however you wish to get the fish into the boat.

----------------
When you catch a fish you don't need to point the rod toward the sky and have a 90 degree bend in the rod.

In times past, I have caught a lot of some very big fish on very very low power rods that would bend to a 180 degree bend if you tried to pull back on the blank. But, point the rod straight toward the fish and use your elbow, upper arm, and fore arm to bring the fish to heel.

Just fight the rod with your elbow and arm and not the rod - for a lighter power rod catching a heavier fish.

Take care

Roger, that,s easier said than done, if your if you light powered rod is spooled with light powered line tied to a light powered hook...lol.

Roger, that,s easier said than done, if your if you light powered rod is spooled with light powered line tied to a light powered hook...lol.

Now Ben, if things were all easy in life - what would be the fun in that.
Life is supposed to be a time of learning and struggles. It is the over coming of difficult tasks that bring true happiness to the soul.

Enjoy the day.

Roger i,m a year shy of eighty, and i can,t believe i haven,t learned that yet, thanks..lol.

My thoughts are if everything is all cleaned up, your old guides are toast, since it's unbranded who is going to know what you did unless you install guides that look way out of character. I rebuilt some of my granddad's rods 30+ years ago, no one has noticed, I just used smaller, lighter components that looked a bit appropriate since no one would really know exactly when the rods were made, the wood grips and reel seat were very generic and popular for a long time period.

>>I'm just wondering if anyone has insight as to how the older vintage rods guide placement was done.

Thanks to all that replied but I think perhaps my question was misunderstood.

I wasn't asking for advice on how to refurbish the rod. I know that I can add guides and place them to get whatever result I want.

My question was if anyone knows what the guide placement style/theory/philosophy/etc. was back in the 1950s. Most of the vintage casting rods I've seen have a similar guide placement to mine.
I'm wondering what that is.

Example:
Was this because the old style techniques and/or line worked better with guides placed this way?
Was it a cost decision on the part of the rod makers?
Was it a fishing style that is different than today?

I find vintage equipment to be very interesting and I'm hoping to learn more.

Rod guides were so heavy and expensive back in the day, they used as few as they could get away with, both for fiscal and rod response reasons. The spiral wrap system was originally developed to decrease the guides needed on the old, long rods.

The only good thing about fishing vintage rods and reels is that it gives you a real appreciation for just how well modern tackle performs in comparison.
Norm

this is just an opinion but i think the grreatest advancement in fishing has been the line itself not rods or reels..i have given up building on graphite rods and gone back to fiberglass because of the new gel spun lines..i can get more than enough sensitivity with glass if i use these new braids and enjoy the fish fighting qualities of glass..i,m talking about e-glass not just s-glass..and i can build four or five glass rods for the cost of one graphite rod and catch as many fish on it..if i break my rod, i don,t break my bank account too..lol.

I won't disagree with you Ben but my take is different. I think it all comes down to the fish you catch and where.

I'd much rather fish a modern reel with a quality drag using lien/Dacron than a 50's reel with braid. But that is because feeling the hit is way down the list for me compared to being able to land the fish. Now there are some vintage reels that had decent drags or can be upgraded. But when it came to vintage bait casters often the drag was your thumb and a leather pad.

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

Daniel,
In that case, you already have the answer in your hand; said rod is a prime example of “how it was done back then” = duplicate it. There is certainly nothing wrong with that!
Ben,
Your reply was music to my ears and I could not agree more. After being introduced to (or more precisely “adorned with”) the Fish-Fighting-Fun-Factor of a vintage FG rod, especially the old Conolons, I rarely use my modern CF stablemates anymore, even for saltwater Calico / Yellowtail pursuits. There is no arguing that CF is the most advanced rod building material to date regarding strength-to-weight, stiffness, sensitivity and rebound, but there is just something special about FG = one simply gets it or they don’t get it!

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

Mark, graphite rods recover much too fast to be a good fish fighting material..i understand there are slower graphite rods but why pay the price when i can get glass for a lot less with more durability and with the sensitivity that braid provides i still get to feel not just the bites but the throb of a spinnerbait, crank bait and the lead of a jig or worm making it,s way on the bottom..

ben belote Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> this is just an opinion but i think the grreatest
> advancement in fishing has been the line itself
> not rods or reels..i have given up building on
> graphite rods and gone back to fiberglass because
> of the new gel spun lines..i can get more than
> enough sensitivity with glass if i use these new
> braids and enjoy the fish fighting qualities of
> glass..i,m talking about e-glass not just
> s-glass..and i can build four or five glass rods
> for the cost of one graphite rod and catch as many
> fish on it..if i break my rod, i don,t break my
> bank account too..lol.

I totally agree. The more flexing slower fiberglass is better suited to modern non-stretching braided lines. Stiffer and faster rods work better with mono because it stretches. If you need to horse a fish in, like through grass or lilly pads, then a graphite broomstick with braid is the way to go. If you are playing the fish without ripping it in, something has to flex.

exactly Lance..graphite in flipping sticks allows you to turn a fish and horse it in but you can,t play with it because the hook will quickly inlarge the hole it,s in and make it easier for the fiish to jump off..but if i,m cranking a lure using a glass rod and hook a fish, i can play the fish longer and the hooks hold a lot longer.

Daniel,
The manufacturers of older rods employed Cone-of-Flight (COF) for their guide trains which simply used progressively smaller guides from the butt / stripper all the way to the tip top. It seemed logical and everyone used and accepted it. COF was used for decades (I have rods purchased in the 1990s which are COF) until Fuji developed the New Guide Concept (NGC) and then the KR Concept more recently. Fuji’s theories were indeed game-changers by employing a reduction train of 3 or 4 high-frame, small-ring guides which choked the line much quicker and were followed by a running train of all the same, small size guides to reduce weight in the upper portion of the rod.
I would be very interested to learn when the 2-line static load test for guide placement was developed. It is also a game-changer indeed as well.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

The 2 line static test has been around for a long time. I have used it for decades, especially for casting rods to keep the guides from rotating when putting a bend in the rod.
Norm