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Re: "Proper" Thread Tension
Posted by: roger wilson (---)
Date: August 18, 2021 01:08AM

Mr. Kirkman,
Actually with respect to tension and rubbing and fuzzies - I think we have a difference of opinion.

The case that Mark is making is that - while the line is under tension, that line is being pulled through a screw eye or line guide. i.e. it is the sharp bend in the thread as the taunt line is being wrapped on the rod.

However, in the case of the thread going onto the guide, there is no rubbing. The tight thread is being pulled off the tension device what ever it might be and in the condition - thus created as the rod is laid on the rod.

But the difference is very big.
i.e. When wrapping a guide, the line itself as it goes onto the rod blank and over the guide - the line is not rubbing against anything. The tight line is simply lined up in a row to be tight and closely spaced next to the previous wrap.

This contrasts with the fact that ( I assume) that the thread spool is being tensioned. So, as the line is being pulled off of the tensioned spool - any corners or guides that the line is pulled through is being pulled through an guide or eyelet - while the thread is taunt and under load. This taunt line is then being pulled through at a sharp angle - as outlined by Mark on its way to the final position on the rod.

--------------------------
So, if the thread spool is tensioned - then all paths that the thread encounters on its way to the blank and guide -- the wrapping thread is being pulled through each of the turn points of the thread while the thread is under tension.

But, if the last thing that the line encounters is the tension device - then all previous guides or eyelets that line up the thread for its trip through the tension device is being done on a slack line and thus no rubbing pressure is applied to the thread since there is no tension on the thread as the line goes through the guides or eyelet - with the tension device at the end of the run as opposed to being at the start of the trip - as happens when the thread spool is being tensioned.

Best wishes

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Re: "Proper" Thread Tension
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: August 18, 2021 07:59AM

Neither tension nor radius causes "fuzzies." If you've been doing this long enough you know that only something that abrades the thread will cause thread fuzz, or worse. If you receive a spool that is already showing these fuzzies, then the manufacturer spooled it on equipment that fuzzed the thread due to some bad part, friction, etc. If the spool is good and fuzzies only appear after you have wrapped a guide with it, the bad part is on your apparatus.


...........

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Re: "Proper" Thread Tension
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: August 18, 2021 09:31AM

John Cates, you have info on line detailing the use of these discs? I think I know what you mean, but not 100% sure. thanks,

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Re: "Proper" Thread Tension
Posted by: John Cates (---.austin.res.rr.com)
Date: August 18, 2021 11:43AM

Michael

Check out this video below and got to the 2:15 time mark. This will give you a look at the teflon washers. They allow the thread to slide easier between the tension plates which resolves the problem with some metallic threads.

[www.youtube.com]

Flex Coat Company
Professional Rod Building Supplies
www.flexcoat.com

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Re: "Proper" Thread Tension
Posted by: chris c nash (70.40.84.---)
Date: August 18, 2021 01:24PM

Only time I got fuzzies is after dressing a guide foot, my vision isn't nearly as sharp as it used to be and I mistakenly left the sides and the end of the foot with sharp edges although it didn't feel that way at the time . It caused the thread to abrade . I removed the thread and guide and polished the foot which apparently did the trick because I haven't had any problems since.

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Re: "Proper" Thread Tension
Posted by: Mark Talmo (---)
Date: August 18, 2021 06:24PM

Speaking of relative, subjective terms, “nubs” and “fuzzies” can certainly be candidates as well. Once again, mine are not severe but rather tiny imperfections in / on the surface of the wrap rarely noticed until finish is applied. I suspect a single, broken filament of the thread could stick-up enough to cause a tiny imperfection / pimple in the epoxy.
“Neither tension nor radius causes "fuzzies." If you've been doing this long enough you know that only something that abrades the thread will cause thread fuzz, or worse.” While I haven’t the decades of experience as Tom, I approach everything I fabricate very methodically and thoroughly (possibly to a fault) including issues which may arise. Although it is possible that abruptly bending the thread around a screw-eye, especially under tension, is not the root cause of the fuzzies, I find the statement to be quite bold. But I (we) won’t know for sure until I replace the screw-eye with a bearinged pulley affair. News at 11:00.
One way or the other, given the foresight, I would have designed my carriage and spool tensioners to allow the thread to travel in a straight, unobstructed line from the spool to the blank as Roger mentioned = live-and-learn (part of which makes fabrication so rewarding). And we are all here to learn!
While this has gotten a bit off-track from the original post, I have enjoyed the tangent = thanks.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

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Re: "Proper" Thread Tension
Posted by: roger wilson (---)
Date: August 18, 2021 10:51PM

Chris,
You mention a change of vision as time goes by.

I never wrap unless I am using 2x or 3x magnifiers with very very very bright light.

With the magnification and the very very very bright light, it is pretty easy to do what might be called perfect work.

If you are not using magnification - whether or not you wear glasses, do yourself and get some magnification in front of your eyes when working with thread wraps.

It eliminates eye strain and the quality of one's work goes way up because it is very easy to see individual threads, no matter the size thread being used.

-----------------------
I tried using magnifying lights, but I soon gave those up. The magnifier was never exactly where I wanted it when it came time to use it.

So, I use an inexpensive head band mounted magnifier that typically comes with several different magnifiers that slip into the head band.

Although I wear Tri Focal glasses with a reading, mid range and distance lens in the trifocals; when I go my guide wrapping, I will always use a pair of single vision glasses that have the same prescription over the entire field of vision.

----------
Speaking of magnifiers.
When one uses a pair of head band magnifiers, one has a different focal length for each of the different magnifying lens power.

In addition to the trifocal glasses that I wear, I also have a pair of single vision reading glasses, a pair of single vision computer glasses with the focal distance at 20 inches. This is arms length so I also use these single vision computer glasses when working in the shop with tools at arms length like building machines or working on a vehicle. Then, I have a pair of single vision distance glasses that are in focus from 5 feet and on out to the far distance. I use these when watching TV or other field sports so that I can see perfectly off in the distance or as close as 4-6 feet, no matter the attitude of my heads or the position of my eyes at the time.

Now, we introduce magnification to the mix.

The one thing that happens is that if I use the same pair of say 3x magnifiers with my reading glasses, I will have a working distance of about 10-12 inches - which is really too close to work comfortably.
But, if I use the same 3x magnifiers with my Computer glasses that have a focal length of 20 inches, I will have a 3x magnifier focal length of about 18 inches which is about the perfect distance for wrapping.
But, if I go to my distance glasses that have a focal length of 4-6 feet, I will have a 3x magnifier of about 2 1/2 feet - which is really too far to work well when wrapping a guide on the rod.


To summarize, my typical guide wrapping setup is a room lighting system that gives me very overall brightness in the room. But, I also have a 50 watt halogen swing light that I adjust to be about 6-10 inches from my guide that I am wrapping. This lighting setup gives me hundreds of lumens of illumination in the work area when wrapping a guide. Great - very very bright lighting is a very good start to doing a better job.

Then, I slip on my computer single vision glasses and put on my magnifying head band with the 2x magnifier mounted in the head band.

The combination of very bright illumination, a pair of single vision glasses that are in focus at 20 inches, and a pair of 2x head band mounted magnier lens rounds out the equation for doing good thread/guide work.

p.s. I just use an inexpensive head band mounted magnifier like this one: [www.amazon.com]

I use a swing arm desk lamp similar this one. [www.houzz.com]

Although, I picked up a number of similar desk lamps from Good Will one day. I paid $3 each for the lamps. All that they needed were new light bulbs.

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Re: "Proper" Thread Tension
Posted by: Mark Talmo (---)
Date: August 18, 2021 11:45PM

Roger,
If I were to employ your illumination and magnification, I’d never be satisfied!!! Lol Sometimes, ignorance is bliss.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

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