I am surprised I never figured this out myself, but a fly rod guru has this tip on his site. If you like to use the nail knot, but have trouble keeping it from unraveling, especially with just two threads, try this. Tighten the knot as much as possible, arrange the threads in good alignment, pull tight again, then DON'T try to cut off the excess thread. Instead, put a very small drop of CP right on the knot and leave it. When it dries the knot will be more stable, and you can cut the excess (carefully) without unraveling the knot.

Or, one can use the following process, use about three pull threads to start the trim wrap about 8 or 9 wraps before the trim thread, but also have another pull thread in the wrap. Then, do your two thread trim wrap, and put the end of the thread in the pull loop that runs back under the main wrap and then pull the trim loops tight. I generally use at least 10 wraps to retain any tag end that I have pulled back and have never had any issues with any thread ever unraveling.

With a thread being held by 10 wraps, no issues with it ever coming loose on a wrap.

One just has to plan ahead and have plenty of pull loops available for a wrap and trim .

Take care

Sorry, Roger, don't understand. I am really not interested in having multiple pull threads. If I want to deal with that I'll just pull, with a single extra pull thread, a one or two wrap trim thread back under the main wrap. This tip is for those who want to use the nail knot and also use CP. Which I know you do not.

Without intending to “one-up” you Michael, similar can be used to produce a single-thread trim band, even stand-alone, isolated from other wraps. Apply CP to a cut length of thread enough for slightly more than one rotation of the blank. Wrap the thread around the blank, aligning the tag ends side-by-side. Wait until the CP is tacky enough (but not cured) to hold the thread in position. Using a fresh razor blade, cut 90* (or parallel to the blank) cleanly through both threads at the same time, and remove the cut-off tags. Use a pick, toothpick or whatever to manipulate and align the ends of the thread. This leaves the ends of the thread perfectly aligned without even the slight offset as typical with most wraps. Performed properly, one would need a magnifying glass to see the joint.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

Michael Danek Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am surprised I never figured this out myself,
> but a fly rod guru has this tip on his site. If
> you like to use the nail knot, but have trouble
> keeping it from unraveling, especially with just
> two threads, try this. Tighten the knot as much
> as possible, arrange the threads in good
> alignment, pull tight again, then DON'T try to cut
> off the excess thread. Instead, put a very small
> drop of CP right on the knot and leave it. When
> it dries the knot will be more stable, and you can
> cut the excess (carefully) without unraveling the
> knot.

Exactly how it was presented in RodMaker all those many years ago...

................

If you do not want the CP effect, CA will work as well and faster.

Michael, Tom and Phil,
If one is using regular nylon thread for whatever desired effect with the suggested nail knot method (or mine for that matter), what “glue” would work?

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

A drop of PermaGloss works well.

................

What is CA?

"super glue"

.........

Bob,
CA = cyanoacrylate = commonly known as “Super Glue”.
Tom,
I would think PG, CP (or virtually anything) applied to a portion of regular nylon thread would seal that portion so it would not become translucent as with the remaining, uncoated thread. Am I missing or unaware of something? I am here to learn.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

Permagloss will turn the thread translucent. So it will be the same appearance as any subsequent finish you apply. PG is not a color preserver.

.............

Thanks, Tom; good to know.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

"Exactly how it was presented in RodMaker all those many years ago..." Evidently too many years ago for me to remember. Or maybe before I started reading it.

I've used the CA method , too, but don't like it as CA always seems to go where I don't want it.

Michael Danek Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am surprised I never figured this out myself,
> but a fly rod guru has this tip on his site. If
> you like to use the nail knot, but have trouble
> keeping it from unraveling, especially with just
> two threads, try this. Tighten the knot as much
> as possible, arrange the threads in good
> alignment, pull tight again, then DON'T try to cut
> off the excess thread. Instead, put a very small
> drop of CP right on the knot and leave it. When
> it dries the knot will be more stable, and you can
> cut the excess (carefully) without unraveling the
> knot.


That's the same method I use.

How many of you use the "nail knot method" to add trim bands to existing wraps?

I find it especially handy for that.

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

I us it, and CA to lock. CA does not act as a CP, translucency is same as the epoxy coat.

Russell Brunt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How many of you use the "nail knot method" to add
> trim bands to existing wraps?
>
> I find it especially handy for that.


For an after the fact trim wrap on existing guide wrap, particularly with only 2 threads, the nail knot method works well.

.........

The only real need for employing a nail knot is for the narrow, isolated binding-wraps on bamboo cane blanks, and even then a pull-through loop could be used instead. How many of us are building those? I suppose adding a narrow trim band, AFTER-THE-FACT, to an existing wrap would warrant the use of the nail knot, but how often does that occur? There should not be any after-thoughts when wrapping a guide = it should all be planned out beforehand. All the comments regarding the need for CP, CA, PG, pull-through loops or such for a nail knot are obvious indications the method does not retain the thread securely, especially the narrower it is not to mention a single thread trim band which is impossible.
There is a QUICKER AND EASIER METHOD WHICH IS MORE PRECISE AND SECURE for producing trim bands, even as narrow as 1-thread = NO waiting for “glue” to dry, NO pull-through loops, NO toothpicks, NO questionably secured threads, NO tags protruding through the wrap = NO nubs, NO precise trimming required, and NO uneven starting and stopping points of the thread. The method I learned was simply and descriptively referred to as “Adding and Dropping Threads” and intended for changing thread color mid-wrap but I have employed it to produce trim bands of any width, including single-thread trim bands. Most likely, you are already using the method if changing colors within your wraps. I went into detail and included photos of the trim band method a few weeks ago. [www.rodbuilding.org]
Check it out if you haven’t already. While there is the saying “you can’t teach an old dog new tricks”, I contend it depends on the dog. I am especially interested in opinions from Bruce, Russell and Phil who apparently use the nail knot method.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

I just use a clove hitch, but I'm a retired Coastie so I use what comes naturally. I use a drop of CP also from day one as my trim is usually black, white NCP, or some metallic.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/12/2021 04:16PM by Spencer Phipps.