When casting all three major types of rods, fly, spinning and casting, should the fulcrum / pivot point of the arc be the hand holding the rod or the shoulder of the angler (effectively lengthening the rod)?
(How’s that for a short post of mine? lol)

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

It is whatever is most comfortable for the person doing the casting and how they have trained themself to cast. There is no perfectly right way or wrong way. It is all about adapting ourselves to the job in a way that fits each of us how we are.

It should be both the wrist and shoulder at different points in the timing of a cast, If one can incorporate the fingers as another fulcrum point, even more lure or line speed can be generated..



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/31/2021 09:30PM by Joel Wick.

I guess it depends on the type of rod you're casting. For me, I fish muskie - 9' rods with baits typically 4 to 9 oz. For a 9' rod, I make an 18" handle. If the exact center of the handle at 9" is the fulcrum, picture me swapping ends by "pushing" the reel seat forward while "pulling" the butt end toward me while the fulcrum doesn't move. I use no shoulder or any other muscles to push the bait out. What happens when I do that quickly, the rod loads up and it launches the bait a long ways, directly proportional to the speed I do this maneuver. By using that technique, on a trip, I'll typically fish 12 hours a day. I'd wear myself out if I simply held the handle and more or less throw my whole body into a cast. Having said that, what works for me doesn't necessarily work for others. I showed this to a rod builder who is just getting into building and fishing with muskie rods. He was blown away by how much further my casts were than his full body into it casts. He now does what I taught him and is sharing with his friends.

Al three major styles, fly, spin and cast, cast entirely different! I cannot comment knowledgably on spin and cast, but fly I know something about.

With fly fishing, the shoulder is the fulcrum, it is best done with a firm wrist.

Al three major styles, fly, spin and cast, cast entirely different! I cannot comment knowledgably on spin and cast, but fly I know something about.

With fly fishing, the shoulder is the fulcrum, it is best done with a firm wrist.

Al three major styles, fly, spin and cast, cast entirely different! I cannot comment knowledgably on spin and cast, but fly I know something about.

With fly fishing, the shoulder is the fulcrum, it is best done with a firm wrist.

Thank you to those replying, both known veterans and names with which I am unfamiliar. Phil, I get your point but you didn’t have to post it 3 times! Lol Hopefully, others will chime-in as well = I am here to learn.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

In fly rod casting. I was taught that the elbow is the pivot point. The upper arm stays relatively straight, but does assist. The forearm is used to raise the rod tip, lifting the line from the water, eliminatging drag. As the back cast progresses, the line is accelerated backwards. At the end of the stroke, the wrist is snapped back, accelerating the line, and producing a tight loop. When you feel the line weight tugging on the rod tip, you reverse the process, straightening the arm forward, and ending with another wrist snap.

With spinning, and bait casting rods, You simply hang a few inches of line, with the lure attached behind your casting shoulder. The, swing the rod tip forward, using both the shoulder, and arm ,uscles to acceslerate the line. The weight of the attached lure pulls the line out until gravity, and drag overcome the lure's inertia.

For long rods, such as two handed, and surf rods. the hand holding the rod handle near the reel, remains a stationary fulcrum, with the hand nearest the handle end accelerating the rod tip, and lure for maximum transfer of energy to the lure.

I have snapped rods from too aggressive casts, with lures too heavy for the rod. Make sure the rod has the strength for what you are doing with it.

Tight Lies and frisky fish

RJF

There are lots of good videos on line with fly casting lessons/tips, too complex to go into here even if I could.

With spin and BC I find myself two-handed casting almost straight overhead with mostly elbow plus wrist flicks, bringing the rod back then forward with no hesitation so the rod unloads well while the hands are going forward. Minimal energy and easy on my bad shoulders. Of course there are many ways to do it depending on what one is trying to accomplish.

The one very important lesson that I learned from a fishing buddy.

This applies to both spinning rods as well as casting rods.

For maximum distance - always use Both Hands to make the cast.

A very great amount of fishing is done at relatively short range and that is easily done using one hand.

But, for the times where you really want to reach out and get to a particular spot on the water - long removed from your location - employ the use of both hands to greatly increase the tip speed of the rod and thus have a proportionate increase in the casting distance.

One way to force learn all of the different casting techniques is to get 4 guys on a 24' bay boat all casting at the same time in different directions in an open water situation. You will have to learn overhead arrow into the wind, overhead parachute with the wind, right side loop-de-loop, left side loop-de-loop, forehand, backhand, and flipping technique all while avoiding the other half dozen rods in the rod holders and the other three anglers line, rods, and body parts.

Mark Brassett Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> One way to force learn all of the different
> casting techniques is to get 4 guys on a 24' bay
> boat all casting at the same time in different
> directions in an open water situation. You will
> have to learn overhead arrow into the wind,
> overhead parachute with the wind, right side
> loop-de-loop, left side loop-de-loop, forehand,
> backhand, and flipping technique all while
> avoiding the other half dozen rods in the rod
> holders and the other three anglers line, rods,
> and body parts.

I totally agree! Casting is setting adjusted!

Years ago back in the 1980's when I was learning how to cast baitcast rods and reels I use to watch a video produced by now disgraced former bass pro John Fox who showed everyone his "right" way to cast which was from a sitting position and holding reel straight up and flicking his wrist up and then down for the cast.

I tried and tried to follow his advice and simply was never able to cast that way. I prefer side arm and using the whole arm and I can cast much further than anything John Fox was teaching in his video.

Point is, I don't believe there is a right or wrong way to cast. No two humans are alike, and not all human bodies are the same or in the best of condition, and so each of us has to adapt our casting to our particular bodies and the settings in which we fish all changes how we cast.

I have a problem with only two people in a boat being a side arm caster. I have to do a lot of over the head casting to avoid hitting the second fisherman, and I don't like it one bit for baitcasting, but for spinning I do.

So my bottom line is there is no truly right or wrong way to cast. Its all good!

If you are casting it means you should be fishing. And if you are fishing, then you are enjoying the sport as it should be! Better than pushing up daisies.

Thank You for the more recent replies as well.
I expected some definite do’s and don’ts, particularly from the fly guys, of which I have very little experience. Properly casting a fly rod must be a passion of persistence, practice and perfection, things to which I am normally attracted. For whatever reason, fly fishing simply never turned-my-crank. While a proper casting technique is required for spinning and casting rods as well, I would think they are more easily mastered than with a fly rod. While receiving two conflicting theories on the attitude of the wrist while fly casting, it seems the majority of “The Other” casters consider it a matter of personal preference.
Bill, be careful talking about “I use no shoulder or any other muscles to push the bait out.” = you’ll really rile-up those adamant about the impossibility of “pushing a line” lol.
Mark, you are so correct about “force” learning different types of casting due to four other guys on a 24ft boat.
Although I consider my casting abilities adequate, I am still amazed if not out-right jealous with how far charter boat deckhands can cast a baitcaster! I want to be just like them when I grow-up!!!

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

The only time wrist movement comes into efficient fly casting is a slight tip of the wrist at the very end of the casting stroke, the purpose of which is to form a nice, tight loop in the line. But if you keep your fly casts under 30' in length almost any casting stroke will do.

Phil,
You have obviously ignored or overlooked MY fly casting stroke lol.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

Mark, I suspect you already know much of what you ask about.

Certainly you would cast a delicate live bait very differently than you would a Tandy candy bar jig. One you have to lob. One you can really lay into.

I learned to fly fish from a friend in Tennessee. We were casting towards the bank and looking to land popping bugs under low hanging limbs. I never questioned anything until I moved back home and thought about saltwater fly fishing. Turns out I was doing everything wrong in Tenn. Yet it worked perfect for what I wanted to do there. So IMHO you should try a fly rod (for a ton of reasons I won't go into here) and you shouldn't care one little bit about casting the correct way. In fact, like me, you might discover that sometimes casting the wrong way is the best way to deliver your fly. A little like sometimes the best way to cast is to lob cast (your bait).

As far as casting like a deck hand.....experience is what it comes down to. IMHO the best way to get there is to buy a reel that is easy to cast. When you are afraid of a bird's nest it gets into your head and really cuts into your distance. I suggest you consider a Akios reel and pair it with a nine foot rod. I think they are a better value than the ABU. Now if you can find the right ABU used at a steal go for it! Neither will be enough for serious yellowtail but they will be a blast for albies. Think 6500 size reel and 15-17# mono. If you are on a private boat they will handle a 20+ pound dolphin no problem. Learn to use your body/hips and cast that candy bar with no fear. 100 yards is very doable. Few can handle the 13 foot rods and do 200 yards. Lets just say you and me ain't got enough bottom at 165 pounds.

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

Russell,
Thank you for the reply which I enjoyed and appreciate. But, honestly, I wouldn’t ask if I didn’t want to learn; the day I stop learning will be the day you read about me in the obituaries! From personal experience, I totally agree with your statement “When you are afraid of a bird's nest it gets into your head and really cuts into your distance”.
And while I may only be 165lb, depending on who you talk to, I may be all “bottom” lol. Is that OK, Tom?

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

A fly caster casts the line, not a sinker, bait, or lure. This means a greatly different group of physical rules apply to fly casters. The more wrist pivoting a fly caster uses the larger the loop in the fly line and the shorter (and less accurate) the cast.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/02/2021 09:05AM by Phil Ewanicki.

How much more accurate? In feet and inches please. ;-)

In fly casting, the fulcrum is most likely the elbow. I've seen guys on tv fight fish using their shoulder as the fulcrum, but not too many casting that way. It might make for a good shoulder workout.

For casting and spinning rods, it could be the wrist, the elbow, someplace along the rear grip, or it could be dynamic and move throughout the cast. With so many different casting techniques, each one is going to be different.

Mark, if you want to really push the limits of your casting ability, you will likely want to involve a weight transfer from rear foot to front foot in concert with your forearm rotating at the elbow on the hand at the reel seat, combined with a push/pull of the hands at the reel seat and butt end of the rod, and a rotation of the torso. It's a full body exercise. The one time I actually made it to the expo, I saw Tommy Farmer give a casting seminar. At that time, I was learning a bit about the sport of lacrosse and helping out with a middle school lacrosse team. There are a lot of parallels between what makes for a good lacrosse shot and a long distance cast. I don't have the coordination to become too adept at either discipline, but the physics are very similar with the exception that in one discipline you want the propelled object to follow a high trajectory and the other not so much.