Hello Everyone,

Since manufacturers keep changing there lineup of rods, mainly the ones I like, I have decided to try and build my own. My "Old Favorites" I am hoping to duplicate are pre-Shimano G Loomis MBR743C GLX "casting" and a pre-Shimano BSR802S GLX Spinning Rod.

I ordered a North Fork Composites SJ 736-1(X-Ray LMX) and a MB 736-1(X-Ray LMX). I plan to use the MB for the MBR and I plan to use the SJ for the BSR (I plan to trim the butt to the length I need).

Does anyone familiar with the North Fork X-Ray blanks as well as the older Loomis GLX blanks think they are similar (along the same quality and sensitivity)?

Also, does anyone know what the LMX stands for (I'm trying to get my head around their labelling system)?

Thanks in advance ~ Leonard

I built a St Croix SCV for my first build. Screwed it up. My experience leads me to recommend that newbies start with a low or mid cost blank instead of a "top of the line" expensive one.

Be very sure of your dimensions, dry fit the components noting which direction they go in, marking them if you want. If you plan on cutting a blank, cut only from the butt. And consider that you can simulate it before you cut by taping the reel seat on the blank in the position it would be on the cut off blank and the guides taped on where they would go on the altered blank.

Very sound advice from Michael. If you have never built before I do not advise building on such fine blanks as a first project. I recommend a start up kit that has the supplies you need similar to a turnkey kit from Mudhole. If you want to make your own wrapper then simply pick a kit level without it. Spending on that will save you hundreds.

I am unfamiliar with the pre-shimano G-Loomis but I am very familiar with the NFC blanks. The SJ 736 has a stronger backbone than the MB. Here is some info posted by Norm in another thread.

Norm wrote:
In case anyone is interested, I do have some CCS measurements for some of the NFC X-ray blanks and HM blanks that I made recently.


> In case anyone is interested, I do have some CCS
> measurements for some of the NFC X-ray blanks and
> HM blanks that I made recently.
>
> MB 704 HM - intrinsic power (IP) is about 560 gm,
> and action angle (AA) is about 72 degrees
> MB 705 HM. - IP 635 gm and AA 75 degrees
> MB 736 X-ray- IP 725 gm and AA 71 degrees
> MB 765 X-ray Neo - IP 865 gm and AA 77 degrees
> SJ 703 X-ray - IP 343 gm and AA 73 degrees
> SJ 736 X-ray - IP 793 gm and AA 75 degrees
> Modern graphite blanks for the most part are not
> all that brittle they hold up quite well if not
> abused. If you want something that is very durable
> and supposedly almost unbreakable try the X-ray
> MB765 Neo.
> Norm

It can be found in this thread comparing the two blank styles.

[www.rodbuilding.org]

edit: Since you are new I should roughly explain the CCS data. IP is Intrinsic Power and represents the rods strength or simply put backbone. The AA is your Action Angle and the higher the number the faster the action.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/26/2021 01:06PM by Aaron Petersen.

I plan to keep the builds pretty simple since that's what I like.

For the casting rod I plan to use a Fuji ACS reel seat with plain old cork grips (old school). I may use either Jann's or Mudhole's kit and swap the real seat to Fuji's ACS. Seams like that's the lest expensive way to get the grip I want anyways (about $20 to 25). Once the blanks are delivered I'll measure the O.D. were I want the real seat to sit and then find the right size seat (will need advice there, not sure how much gap there should be between to OD of the Rod and the ID of the seat and cork). I'll pre-fit everything and ream as needed before gluing anything.

For the guides I'll plan to use Fuji Concept Stainless Frames with Aconite inserts (about $30) and space them similar to my G Loomis rods in similar length and actions I already have.

When done I should have about $200 into each for materials. Hopefully it will be a nice rod for the cost.

I do have pretty much all the tools to build rods. I've been repairing my own for a long time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/26/2021 02:45PM by Leonard Bourdage.

The best fit is a direct fit to the blank with no arbors if possible. So measure the blank just above the cork handle and order your Fuji ACS with that I.D. My favorite casting build is on the SJ736 and uses a reel seat that I ream to sit perfectly on the blank. No filler required.

Having the repair experience changes things for sure. I have no doubt these rods won't disappoint you.

Leonard,

I would suggest not mimicking the Loomis rods because they will have different properties than these X-rays. Do a two line static test instead. It makes guide placement a breeze.

[www.rodbuilding.org]

[anglersresource.net] This is the Anglers Resource guide to static placement.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/26/2021 03:28PM by Aaron Petersen.

Aaron, I found when I used those reel seats (purpose was to feel more vibrations when trolling Buck's spoonplug), I just purchased more molded product. The distance from seat to blank was not reduced. Please tell me how you see this. I was very disappointed, thinking I had solved a riddle. Thank you.

I understand Leonard's thinking perfectly . The first build I started with was also a high end blank and the reason I started with a high end blank was because I had zero interest in building anything else to practice on It was top of the line or nothing at all . What will become apparent is that the finished rod will be perfectly functional but it will also be far from a clean & mistake free oriented build .

Wraps and epoxy will look rushed and detail will leave a lot to be desired no matter how careful you attempt to be . Functionality will be fine however in the overwhelming majority of cases the rod just won't be particularly attractive that's all. It takes building many rods to get the hang of it and they do improve and look better each time as expected.

The two line method is easier than the one line because the guides are not taking the load of the rod so they don't have to be tied on as tightly AND they can be moved without unloading the rod.

Common rookie (and not so rookie) mistakes

Misalignment of reel seat with respect to guides, misalignment of guides
Epoxy getting where it doesn't belong-clean it up with liberal alcohol before it sets or you won't be able to easily/cleanly clean it up.
Not enough epoxy (common error of big box rods, seats and griips come loose.
Trying to balance the rod some builders make the distance between the butt and the grip too long causing but to get hung up on clothing (elbow).
On spinning rods putting the reel seat on backwards.
Mix errors on epoxy, both wrap and adhesive-for liquid use syringes-they don't have to be cleaned every time, just keep the resin one for resin, the hardner one for hardner.
Using excessive heat on the blank when fitting or moving the tiptop. It only takes a little heat with hot melt. A few seconds to the tube of the tiptop, filled with hot melt chips, is sufficient. Don't apply heat to the blank
Eccentric reaming of cork grips- get a good reamer set, using gloves, let the cork spin in the hand some while reaming. Work slowly, you cannot put the material back on if you go too far. You don't want to have to shim if you don't have to.

Welcome

Thanks for the advice.

I did some reading and found these two articles in the Library on this site, on Casting and Spinning Guide Placement. Are these the recommended ways to space guides?

Casting Guide Placement: [www.rodbuilding.org]

Spinning Guide Placement: [www.rodbuilding.org]

Jeffrey D Rennert Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Aaron, I found when I used those reel seats
> (purpose was to feel more vibrations when trolling
> Buck's spoonplug), I just purchased more molded
> product. The distance from seat to blank was not
> reduced. Please tell me how you see this. I was
> very disappointed, thinking I had solved a riddle.
> Thank you.


There may be more graphite material on the fuji ACS then in a traditional seat yes. However the graphite is light and with it directly on the blank there is no need for arbors which add mass and there is less adhesive needed for mounting the seat as you don't need to fill space or seal arbors. That is my personal take. When building Identical blanks the arborless way was lighter. And that compared a Fuji traditional seat to an American Tackle G2 with a 3k insert. I am not in the shop so I don't have the numbers on hand.

FWIW, both of those blanks are a lot stronger than what I find for the BSR802S GLX (6-10#, 1/8-1/4 ounce, X-fast, 6'8"). The SB 682-1 looks like a closer match. But hey, I don't know anything about the BSR802S GLX.

The SJ 736-1 is the stronger blank of the two so I'd build that one as your casting rod. The SJ 703-1 is a nice finesse blank and I'd say it's rating is what they have listed for the SJ 732-1, so it is also close. I just wouldn't want to cut 6" off the blank.

P.S. I think everyone should own a HS 7600....just because it is fun and does a lot of things.

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

I've never owned a GLX (pre Shimano or otherwise) but I have fished with a couple that my buddies own. I'm not sure if they were pre Shimano or not, but fishing with them was the reason I started building my own rods. The X ray blanks are more sensitive than the GLX. I built 2 rods on NFC MB736 X ray blanks. At least that's the blanks I ordered. Long story short. They may actually be SJ 736 X ray blanks.

Really can't contribute much more as I have zero experience with the rods you mentioned, and you didn't provide any specs for them. Posting them would help with an opinion on how close of a match the blanks you've chosen, will be. Just as a guess based on some of the G Loomis rods I've owned and fished. The MB 736 blank is probably going to have about the same power as the 3 power G Loomis. A G Loomis 2 power is a lot lighter in power than either of the blanks you've chosen. Again just a guess based on past experience with other G Loomis rods.

Also, it would really help if you posted what you plan on using the rods for. I use the two rods I built primarily for open water smallmouth bass fishing. 3/16 - 3/8 oz tube jigs, and 3/8 - 1/2 oz football jigs. I also throw lighter Texas rigged soft plastics with them, as well as Senko. I have also used them for throwing spinnerbaits and they work great, it's just that the reels I have on them (both are built as casting rods) have 8:1 gear ratios, so it's makes retrieving spinnerbaits with them a little more work than I like for a spinnerbait.

They're awesome blanks, with sensitivity that is off the charts. And one last thing ..... you are aware that the blanks have a texture to them, correct? If not, they're unsanded at the factory so they have resin ridges on them. While it seems that most people don't have a problem with that, I personally did, so I lightly sanded the blanks. It's not hard to do, but it can be a touchy proposition, and may not be something you'd want to undertake. Just a heads up in case it's something that may bother you.


Oh and I am just going to add one thing. If you're going to be using the spinning rod you're building for dragging tube jigs. I would give serious consideration to one of the new RX10 Eternity blanks from Rainshadow. Specifically the ETEC72M blank. I just finished a build on that blank and it is crazy good. More expensive than the NFC blanks, but every bit as good.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/26/2021 08:33PM by David Baylor.

Leonard,
Please do yourself a very very very huge favor and not start rod building using either of the rod blanks mentioned.

Virtually no one does a perfect, or even close to a perfect build on their first build.

Don't go out and spend $300 on blanks and components and have a rod that simply is not up to ones expected standards of a really quality build.

-------------------------
Rather, purchase a complete rod kit from Mudhole or similar where the entre kit sells for $50 and build the rod.

You many never actually ever use this rod, but you will learn a great deal about rod building by building on such a blank.

When I first started building, I started with one off blanks that were decent blanks but only sold for $5 a blank.

Even though I had a very good teacher, I think that I built about 10 rods before I decided that I was building well enough to buy a very nice Loomis blank for my first quality build.

After looking back after all of these years and with many many rods coming off the wrapper in the main time- I am very very happy that I started with a number of practice rods first.

You can purchase a blank for $20, a reel seat for $10, grips - if you use eva for $10, a set of guides for $10 and some thread for $5 and glue and thread finish.
No reason to spend more than $50 total when starting for a first build.

Then, when you are all finished, and find anything at all that you don't like, cut it off and redo it as many times as necessary perhaps you even use it the first time.

Or, go to a good will or similar and buy 2 or 3 rods. for $2 each. Take each one, cut off the guides, clean up the guides and rewrap the guides that are on the $2 rod. If you don't like the wrap, cut it off and do it again, and again, and again, until you are 1000% happy with your wrapping job.

Then, apply finish and let it dry. If you don't like it, cut off the guide and finish, clean up the rod and do it again, and again as necessary until the application and drying of finish is perfect. Do all of this on the $2 rod until you have achieved perfection.

Once you are at this stage, go ahead and spend the $300 and build the rod that you really want to build.

------------------------------
But, perhaps you are laying in the weeds, and maybe you have already wrapped a hundred guides on a rod using some different trim patters and styles for the perfect rod. If that is the case, then, by all means build your dream rod.

best wishes

Leonard,
Please do yourself a very very very huge favor and not start rod building using either of the rod blanks mentioned.

Virtually no one does a perfect, or even close to a perfect build on their first build.

Don't go out and spend $300 on blanks and components and have a rod that simply is not up to ones expected standards of a really quality build.

-------------------------
Rather, purchase a complete rod kit from Mudhole or similar where the entre kit sells for $50 and build the rod.

You many never actually ever use this rod, but you will learn a great deal about rod building by building on such a blank.

When I first started building, I started with one off blanks that were decent blanks but only sold for $5 a blank.

Even though I had a very good teacher, I think that I built about 10 rods before I decided that I was building well enough to buy a very nice Loomis blank for my first quality build.

After looking back after all of these years and with many many rods coming off the wrapper in the main time- I am very very happy that I started with a number of practice rods first.

You can purchase a blank for $20, a reel seat for $10, grips - if you use eva for $10, a set of guides for $10 and some thread for $5 and glue and thread finish.
No reason to spend more than $50 total when starting for a first build.

Then, when you are all finished, and find anything at all that you don't like, cut it off and redo it as many times as necessary perhaps you even use it the first time.

Or, go to a good will or similar and buy 2 or 3 rods. for $2 each. Take each one, cut off the guides, clean up the guides and rewrap the guides that are on the $2 rod. If you don't like the wrap, cut it off and do it again, and again, and again, until you are 1000% happy with your wrapping job.

Then, apply finish and let it dry. If you don't like it, cut off the guide and finish, clean up the rod and do it again, and again as necessary until the application and drying of finish is perfect. Do all of this on the $2 rod until you have achieved perfection.

Once you are at this stage, go ahead and spend the $300 and build the rod that you really want to build.

------------------------------
But, perhaps you are laying in the weeds, and maybe you have already wrapped a hundred guides on a rod using some different trim patters and styles for the perfect rod. If that is the case, then, by all means build your dream rod.

best wishes

The MB705 HM is supposed to be a remaster of the of the MBR843C IMX, a call to NFC may be advisable.

All good advice. Thanks Guys.

I'm hoping one will serve as a tube bait / ned rig spinning rod for deep water Smallmouth on the Great Lakes. The other I plan to use as a deep weed line jig rod for largemouth on the inland lake. Line for both will be 20 to 30 pound braid with a 10 to 15 pound fluorocarbon leader and lure weights will be 1/4 to 3/8 usually and up to 1/2oz on windy days.

I guess at the end of the day the action of the rods themselves will dictate what they will be used for.

Thanks for the input from everyone.

In my opinion 30 pound braid is overkill and will cost casting distance on spin, which is important in clear water Great Lakes smallmouths. By using a premium braid like Hitena PureLine you can go as high as 20 and still get very long casts, but even most braids at 20 will cost significant distance. Since the water will be relatively free of obstructions you can get away with lighter lines. 10-15 pound test for most braids. I use 19 pound Hitena (12 strands) with 14 pound test FC Hitena leader and it works like a charm. While premium braids seem expensive, they last for years. At least they do for my frequency of fishing.

I use the SJ703 for ned rigs and tubes for Alabama spots. But I have never fished it deeper than 15" give or take. I have built a spinning MB736 cut down to 6'9" and the angler I sold it to uses it for 1/8oz neds to 5/16oz finesse jigs. He told me it works well in that range and can toss 1/10oz neds but 1/8oz he claimed was the sweet spot.