The moment during a cast the rod/line/lure/bait stops accelerating forward (line release) the rod begins bending forward, but NONE of the "power stored in the rod" is transmitted to the fish line, no matter how much "power" is stored in the rod bend. Why not? Because you can't push on a string. Try it.

If only that was how it worked. Nothing is pushed in a cast on spinning/casting setup.

Watch a slo mo of a cast, a hockey shot, or a golf swing. Same principal. The bait is not released when the rod is fully bent.

The unbending (unloading) of the rod adds acceleration to the mass at the end of the line. When you free the line the bait pulls line from the reel. Nothing pushes.

This subject has been thoroughly covered. Phil is fishing.

Good luck.

They say don't feed the trolls. But sometimes I find it a good exercise.

Here we go again.....

I was under the impression you can however pull a string with the weight of a lure, not sure where you keep coming up with the push a string theory. While I understand you are trying to make a point, I'm not sure what it is, try throwing a lure with out a the lever and potential energy and see how far it travels. I was thinking Newton's Law and Physics came into play, but I'm sure that I'm mistaken.

Getting pretty tiring.

Getting????? It’s WAY past the point!

Phil you claim to be a fly fisherman, if so, look at your cast and you will see that the rod is pulling the line as it unbends forward. This unbending is called "unloading!"

Phil,
Allow me to suggest your conception of “(line release)” timing may be off, possibly way off. When the line is restricted/kept from pulling off the spool (fly= hand, spin = finger or casting = thumb), the abrupt forward motion of the rod (cast) subjects the blank to flexing simply due to the weight of the line / weight / lure restricting the the free movement of the blank in its straight, relaxed state. This is commonly referred to as “loading” the blank. WHEN THE TIMING IS JUST RIGHT with the hand, finger or thumb, the induced energy of the flexed blank will propel the weight of the line, bait or lure away/off of the spool; pushing a wet noodle has NO bearing here!!! If you disagree, please provide all of us with scientific, numerical values from which all of us will be ecstatic to learn.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

Is the line straight? If yes, it is under tension. If it were under compression (pushed) it would not be straight. In a properly executed fly cast the line is always under tension until it is released. Then momentum comes into play and it contiues moving forward. The "trailing" line is still in tension, being pulled by the mass of the line in front of it. With spin and baitcast the principals are the same, but the weight being cast is mostly in the lure and not the line.

I just took my casting rod, put a 1/2 ounce weight on the end of the line, a did a bow-and-arrow cast, allowing ALL the power of the rod (and no power from my arm) to launch the cast. I got terrible results - casts of five feet. When I cast I release the line when the rod is bent backward, still chock-full of power. When casting should I release the line when the rod is straight up-and-down or wait until the rod bends fully forward and stops pushing the line?

Try flicking your wrist.

These completely absurd threads will continue as long as people keep trying to answer these completely absurd questions . Phil loves asking questions that he already knows the answers to , he's an extremely knowledgeable lifelong angler who finds it extremely entertaining asking asinine questions. He loves to play around but make no mistake when he chimes in on topics that are truly technical and not easily understood he often reveals his true brilliance.




When you come upon stuff like the below just laugh don't feed into the ridiculousness .




" I did a bow-and-arrow cast, allowing ALL the power of the rod (and no power from my arm) to launch the cast. I got terrible results - casts of five feet"

Phil is catching a lot of fish.

Science All objects at rest will remain st rest unless acted upon by some other force. All objects in motion will remain in motion, at a constant velocity and direction unless acted upon by some other force. Tht being said, for this discussion,the object is the lure, At the beginning of the forward cast, with the line behind the forward direction if the cast, that lure, for this purpose of explanation, is at rest. The forward motion of the rod (lever) tip, applies pressure to a line which is attached to the lure, thus forcing the lure from a state of potential energy to a state of kinetic energy. The lure resists the change in proportion to the rate of acceleration. The faster the acceleration, the more resistance to change, T flexible rod blank bends, storing energy, as it places tension on the line to accelerate the lure, until the lure reaches the point where the rod can no longer apply tension in the forward plane to the lure. All the while as the lure reaches that point, the rod blank returns to its straight access, releasing that stored energy to the line , so long as the lure can be accelerated. At the point that the lure is no longer accelerated by the rod blank (lever),inertia takes over. The line will remain in motion at a constant velocity until the forces of gravity, and friction cause it to strike the water.


No discussion is needed. t's simple physics.

Tight Lies and frisky fish

RJF

Phil Ewanicki Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I just took my casting rod, put a 1/2 ounce weight
> on the end of the line, a did a bow-and-arrow
> cast, allowing ALL the power of the rod (and no
> power from my arm) to launch the cast. I got
> terrible results - casts of five feet. When I cast
> I release the line when the rod is bent backward,
> still chock-full of power. When casting should I
> release the line when the rod is straight
> up-and-down or wait until the rod bends fully
> forward and stops pushing the line?

My only advice is do not go "dock shooting" for crappie with that setup. The technique is solid but your equipment is not smooth, accurate, or soulful.

When casting I release the line at the moment my fly rod or casting rod or spinning rod is at maximum bend - usually when the rod handle is vertical - right next to my ear. I tried waiting for the rod to unbend/straighten, releasing all its stored energy down the line into my cast. For me it doesn't work that way. Try it for yourself.

LOL.... thanks for a good chuckle, to those of you who bemoan a subject that has been already discussed many times. And yet you post here. Those with this opinion are not wrong of course - this has been discussed ad nauseam.

Of course, there are also those who still find this discussion pertinent in some way and there's freedom to dialogue. This is the beauty of a public forum. As long as there are 'customers' for a discussion, let it continue to live. And those who don't want to buy, can just ignore.

Phil, I agree with you in this regard: As a spin fisherman, I realize that ONCE my finger releases the line, the rod's stored potential energy in the bend of the rod is no longer contributing to the acceleration of the lure in any significant manner. There is a bit of line friction on the guides so that there is some very small added acceleration but for all practical purposes, once my finger releases, the rod's stored energy is expended in just straightening itself for the most part and then oscillating back and forth. The energy is absorbed by internal physical friction losses, air friction, and friction from the line. Thus, given the lack of added energy from the rod at the point of my finger release, the lure's speed (velocity) is maximum at the point of my release, and starts decelerating at the point of release. Once I release the line, the rod can only PUSH as you states - and this does not happen.

However, the rod's stored energy BEFORE my finger releases the line does contribute to the acceleration of the lure because it does PULL the line and lure forward. When I do a back cast, the rod starts bending and storing increasing potential energy. Then when I do the forward cast and the rod also recovers and starts straightening out, BOTH my forward casting movement and the rod recovery in straightening out while my finger is still holding onto the line contribute to the acceleration of the lure. So in that sense, the rod's bend (stored energy) is contributing to the acceleration of the lure BEFORE I release the lure.

Question one may ask then: Am I sure that the rod is unbending/straightening/releasing potential energy when I move into my forward motion after pulling the rod back? Would the rod not be bending further as I am doing a forward motion? Why would it start straightening out during my forward motion? The reason is that the backward (negative) force in bending the rod caused by the acceleration (and the resulting momentum) of my backcast loading the rod PLUS the sudden change in direction going to a forward stroke result exerts a much greater force on the blank than the following forward stroke before I release my line. So the blank starts unloading its stored energy all the way up to the point of my release. Thus, before I release the line, in the forward part of the stroke, the rod is unloading its potential energy into kinetic energy.

I am glad that this is Newtonian physics which is much easier, for me, than Einstein's more refined formulations...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/15/2021 12:04AM by Mo Yang.

good stuff Mo but i think you just tongue-tied all the adspeakers..lol.