So I have added some UL blanks (3) to my collection. Likely I'll be fishing from shore so casting performance is important. I was thinking a 500 and a 1000 size reel would be the thing to match them with (blanks are all NFC; FW741-2, FW702-2, and FW664-2).

But I'm second guessing myself. All I am gaining is weight reduction and maybe I'm sacrificing a lot of casting distance. These days I can get a reel like a 2500 Daiwa Fuego and come in as light as yesterdays 1000 reels used to be. Given that I might very well fish mono at times maybe the larger reel is best if weight/balance is comparable?

I don't want to go out and buy a 500, 1000, and 2000 Vanford and end up feeling like a made a serious mistake. Especially if I want to fish 4# mono on the 1000 and 6# mono on the 2000.

Any words of wisdom are appreciated. I would prefer the reels could handle salt water usage even if they never are so used.

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

The way I look at spinning reels is this ..... the larger the diameter of the spool is, the better it's going to cast. The line comes off the larger diameter more easily, and the spool doesn't lose as much diameter during a cast. As the spool empties the diameter of the spool at the line decreases, but the diameter of the actual spool lip doesn't, so there's more friction between the spool lip and the line.

Put that 4# mono on the 2000 and a long cast with 4# test may have the spool looking as if it is full if it were to have 6# test on it. I use fluorocarbon line as the main line on my spinning gear, and spool diameter makes a big difference in casting performance. I run 8# Seaguar Tatsu on 3000 series Shimano reels. In the past I have dropped down to 6# test Tatsu, and I would say my casting distance increased anywhere from 10 - 15%. Maybe even more.

Personally, I base how long of a cast I'm going to make, on my ability to get good hook penetration. I rarely use braided line, but even when I do, I still won't cast further than I think I can get good hook penetration.

Copy David's comments.

I normally never put a reel smaller than a size 2500 reel on any rod. Heavy, medium heavy, medium , medium light, light, ultra light.

Also, in particular, I like to use the reels with the very large spool on the reel.

Just one of many examples of very large spool fishing reels with a retrieve ratio of 30 inches or so per turn of the reel. This way, one can make tremendously far casts, work a pod of spooky fish, and then quickly reel back to cast again.
[www.basspro.com]

All of these reels are similar in design. i.e. very large spools, a very compact and narrow body and great cranking and retrieving ability. Yes, they have some weight. But, weight is not the over riding concern per your request. You wanted a reel that really cast a long distance. This is one of many of similar design.

Best wishes.

For my UL Rods I use 1000 sized reels filled mostly with light braid, and on occasion light mono. I can cast light lures a long way with no problems. You can put a lot of light and thin line on a small spool, so a long cast doesn’t get you very deep into the spool, like using heavier thicker line would. The light line is also quite limp and comes off the small spools very smoothly in smaller coils. Remember the bigger the spool the bigger the line coils, the bigger the coils the greater the possibility for line slap. In addition, a larger reel sits further away from the blank and in combination with larger line coils requires higher/larger stripping guide to help choke the line coils down, or a stripper of a given size needs to be placed further away from the spool using a large reel to reduce line entry angle. Of course heavier and stiffer line requires larger reels. There are always compromises that can be made, but for the way I fish with an UL rod a small reel with light line is the way I do it. In my opinion, an UL outfit is supposed to be UL.
Norm

Russell,
Both David and Roger offer valid advice concerning reel size for UL fishing rods and I cannot really argue with them. Generally, the true UL, 50 - 100 size spinning reels have a rather small diameter spool which equates to the tendency to induce “pig-tails” in mono or fluoro. Nonetheless, such reels are preferred by many serious backpackers for their smaller size and less weight, a very common trait with rod builders as well! But if one researches, there are a number of 100s which sport larger diameter yet narrower spools which hold 100-140yd of 4lb mono, all that should be required of an UL reel. After many years of Shimano and Daiwa reels, I have lately become very fond of Lew’s reels. I have found a size 100 reel to perform very well in the roadside lakes and streams as well as the backcountry, wild waters while seeking trout.
It really boils down to what you expect and require; maybe an UL is too small for you. To me, slapping on a 3000 reel on an UL rod is like shoehorning a V8 into a Fiat; yes it has been done but it is certainly overkill and the nimbleness of the tiny car is lost.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

Russell,
2X Norman’s reply; maybe he said it better than I did.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

How much added distance would be the minimum to satisfy your expectations? Just switching to a different line might add six or eight feet to your casts.

In my opinion, it's all about the line when talking casting distances. The new advanced braids cast a "mile" off any reel with almost any guide setup. Hitena Pure Line in 21 pound test casts like the old 10 pound braids.

The best reel deal going now, very light and advertised to be salt capable, is probably the Pflueger Supreme. If worried about the drag, get the up level model with the upgraded drag. I have the base and it has performed very well for a couple years now.

If an anti reverse switch is desired (I won't buy a reel without one) then watch out-many new reels are coming with full time anti reverse, no switch.

Russell, the Vanford appears to not have a switch.

I have noticed little to no perceptible differences in casting distances when spooling with extremely light braids ( 4 -6 pounds) regardless of spool diameters on super small spinners. I attribute that to the fact that UL outfits don't have the blank power and ability to cast the weight ranges that result in 100+ yard casts where spool emptying & friction really becomes a factor . If using mono 6 pounds and up it becomes a real factor and larger spool diameters will definitely prove to be advantageous as will the guide sizes and positioning's become more critical .

Line choice, size and type is the # 1 factor that determines everything else when it comes to spinners.

While tine type certainly plays an important role in the performance of an UL spinning rod, especially a KR Concept build, my replies have been more directed to the other part of the equation = reel (spool) size. The vast majority of spin anglers in my neck-of-the-woods, the Eastern Sierra, employ mono, some fluoro, and then like me, hybrid mono/fluoro, but braid is rarely seen! Amongst us in the know, it is pretty much a no-brainer that braid will out-perform mono/fluoro on a spinning rod, especially a KR Concept rod. But the thin and inherently limp 4lb mono/fluoro responds very well also, given a spool diameter that is not too small to induce “pig-tails” in the line but not too big to create unnecessarily large coils coming off the spool while casting. I stand by my suggestion that an UL spin rod should utilize up to a size 100 reel (possibly as much as a 2000) but after that, the V8 / Fiat syndrome sets in.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

Thank you gentlemen.

Looks like I should go with a 1000 size for the lightest blank. The other two, I suppose, don't really qualify as UL (4-8#/4-10# ratings). I'll see how that size feels on them and go from there.

I have problems with my fingers/hand so the real limp, low # test braid, is a problem. The more wiry stuff like Fireline, I can begin to handle.

Never even held a Lews reel, and outside of a fly reel, I think the last Pflueger I used had a leather thumb pad for a drag:) I'll put them on the list to consider.

Yup, my mind was debating the smaller coils equals more friction but larger coils might equal line slap. Mostly just don't have much experience with anything smaller than a 2500. Stradic always seemed to be my idea of price/quality point. Many years ago the Daiwa black gold changed my idea of what a spinning reel was and I've been a Shimano/Daiwa guy ever since. I actually am not a fan of ARB (only) reels for serious work but if the daiwa tournament ss 700 had one I'd probably get it. Always were light for the line capacity and had a nice drag. The 1300 used to see a lot of use in my waters.

Now if I could just get those KR concept guides to line up in a bulls eye pattern using the info off the web site calculator. Depending on what page I go to I get different answers. Any reason why I shouldn't place my choker guide and then tie a string to reel shaft and use that to line up the reduction guides? I'm using 20H, 10H, 5.5M, to KB/KT 4.5's.

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

Russell, that combination of reduction train guides are the ones I've used on all of my spinning rods. Never had a problem getting them to bullseye. I use a 5.5 KB for my choke guide though. I do it because I use fluorocarbon line as my main line, and I figure that little extra guide height helps the line turn the corner a little easier.

Since I am building a KR concept guide train, I only look at the KR software. IMO that's the only software you need to look at.

Russell, I like David use that combo all the time and the KR software works fine. The other software will give funny answers. I use the KR software for the reduction train, two line stress test for the runners, and I don't even test cast any more. It always works just fine. Make sure you are using the KR software.

Russ,
When working with a spinning rod and reel, especially when running lighter line and experience line slap, I have found that by running a match guide for the stripper or first guide that the line slap has always been resolved.
For example on an ultra light, my first guide will always be a size 20 match guide. This size guide with its ring size and height has always kept the line away from the rod with its inherent line slap.

In past years, I would try using an SV size 20 guide and almost invariably - with certain lines and or reels, I would experience Line slap, so I just always go with the Match guide for the first guide and now, never have line slap issues.

But, also, if you want the maximum casting distance - without a doubt - a reel with a large spool size will give you that maximum casting distance.

------------------------------
Conversely, if I am using a rod close to the boat and want the very lightest rig where casting is not an issue, I will remove the larger reel and put on a 1000 sized reel with its 4 oz weight compared to the larger reel with its 8 oz weight.

When I build rods, I never every build a rod that is tailored specifically for a specific rod. Rather, I build the rod to be able to accommodate a variety of reels simply because that is my style of fishing.

I have some rods that I built a very long time ago and are wonderful rods that I enjoy using very much and catch a lot of fish every time that I go out. But, as the years go by, reels come and go. Sometimes the reels are small, some time the reels are large. But one and all, the rod fits them all and I use them with happiness for the specific feature that I might get with a new reel for a specific purpose.

Normally, when I go fishing I may very well have a dozen rods in the boat. I normally also have a dozen or so reels in my reel bag in the boat.

When I go to use a rod, I grab the rod of my choice for the that movements fishing and grab the reel for that moments fishing and enjoy the time on the water with that specific combination.

Every once in a while, if I happen to be using a new reel with a particular rod, I learn something else about the rod and or reel combination that may end up being very good or maybe not so good. But, a day on the water, is always an opportunity to learn something new.

My father told me this a very long time ago: "Son, if you don't learn something new every single day, on that day - you become less intelligent." The meaning behind this statement is that the world is going on around all of us each and every day and the world is moving along. So, if you don't move with it, by learning and educating yourself every day - you, by not learning something on a particular day - have just lost a step compared to everything and everone around you.

Enjoy each and every day to its fullest.

The Fuji KL-H guides are essentially match guides with a tangle free design, one of the reasons match or match-like guides can be substituted in a KR concept. I find the easiest way to bullseye the reduction guides is once the guides are all taped into positioned, I run the line through the guides tie on a light weight and let it just hang from the tiptop. With the rod held horizontally I push the line to the bottom of the spool and look for a straight line from the bottom of the spool to the choke guide, and another straight line from the choke to the tip top with the line touching the bottom of each guide. Very easy and it works. I don’t know how long your handle will be, but for an 88” UL rod the using a 1000 size reel, the stripper will be about 19” in front of the reel spool, and the the choke point about 22 to 24” in front of the stripper. The choke point is quite movable, and thus can be moved in or out a little to accommodate static testing and guide spacing. For a 1000 reel using light braid or mono I would use a KL16H based reduction train. However, with a more a wiry line and/or a larger reel a KL20H reduction train will work just fine you can move the stripper out a little to accomadate the larger line coils. The KR GPS will recommend 5 running guides for a total of 8 guide plus tip top. I find this to be too few runners and will usually add an extra guide or two to give a better static test, as well as to give a more progressive and better looking guide placement set up. It will cast extremely well, and. I think you will really like the way it performs. I also like Shimano and Diawa reels, I have a bunch of them. I have used my 7’ UL with a 1000 reel and light jigs wade fishing-for speckled trout, really a lot of fun. Will even handle slot reds. Have fun with your spinning rods.
Norm

Russell,
Listen to Norman = he’s a smart cookie! I set-up my reduction train differently but the end result is the same = a bullseye with the guides down, in the fishing position. From time-to-time, I will employ something learned from another smart cookie, Roger Wilson; with the reel mounted and the guides in their temporary positions, I will thread the line through all the guides and pull out a few yards of line with 1/2oz of weight tied on the end. As the line is reeled back in, I observe how equally the line rubs the entire inner circumference of the butt guide, “equally” being the important word. If required, the butt guide is moved to accommodate such, but rarely needed to be more than 1/2in from the normal 19in from the spool face for my ULs.
A KL 20-H reduction train will add versatility to the rod by allowing a larger reel to be employed. Although I typically use a 100 size reel for my UL fishing, I do have 1500s and 2000s that work just fine with my typical KL 16-H reduction train. I cannot compare the two for you as all of my ULs start with a 16. Maybe on my next personal UL build I will try a 20 just for laughs-and-giggles and simply because I can.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

Russell don't worry about the reel size at all the differences in spool diameters between small Shimano spinners from the 1000 up to the 4000 sizes are extremely minimal and will have no perceptible effect on casting distances when using line as light as you plan on using . The biggest differences in reels this small are not with spool lip diameters they're with line capacity meaning spool depth and then comes an increase in drag capability. Spool lip diameter changes are extremely minimal so pick a reel that you're most comfortable with . The smallest reel I will use is a 3000-4000 size Stradic but I'm strictly saltwater these days.

Okay FWIW I found I had to put in false info to get anything meaningful out of the KR GPS software. Anything close to the truth defaulted to 16H, 8H, 5.5M. Had to go to a minimum of 2000 size reel and 20-30 braid to get suggestions for 20H, 10H, 5.5M guide train. I'll see how that works.

In another section it was mentioned I could measure the distance from butt guide to rod tip, multiply by .45, and set my choker there.

I'm a little uncomfortable with the notion that where I should locate a guide is dependent on grip or rod length. To me everything should be based on reel size/line used and referenced from spool lip/reel shaft. Maybe I'm just too accustomed to the old 27X method?

I'm with your Norm, using some guide wrapping thread is much faster, easier, and exact than measuring. The only thing I do different is place the choker guide and then let the line from reel shaft determine where the reduction guides go.

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

It's not based on grip or rod length. It's based on butt guide to rod tip. The problem with that arises when you wonder if the butt guide is in the right place. But I agree .... it should be based on a reel to tip measurement. That seems to be what the KR software bases it on.

And I didn't really have to fudge the numbers to get to the 20H, 10H, 5.5M reduction train, What I did have to do is use higher pound test mono filament line numbers, than the fluorocarbon line I actually use. I did it because of the stiffness of the line. It sounds as if you're disappointed in the KR software, when in fact it did exactly what it was designed to do. It gave you the guide sizes and placements for an optimum guide train for the line and dimensions you provided. You wanted larger guides, so it only makes sense that you'd have to trick it with numbers other than what you're planning on using.

In my case, fluorocarbon line isn't a line type option, so I had to tell it I was using 10 -14# test mono filament. In your case you wanted larger guides ...

And this is just my opinion here .... Norman is the Mac Daddy when it comes to the KR concept guide train. One of, if not the most respected member of this site. I am quite sure that the method he described is dead on, but I don't see how it can be faster and easier than a tape measure and a white china marker. I've only built 6 spinning rods thus far (currently working on my 7th) and I have built every one of them using the KR software and placing the guides exactly where the software says I should. Every one of the rods I've built cast like a dream. And as I've said, I use fluorocarbon line.

The KR concept is very versatile and IMO the software is awesome..... you just have to fool it when you want it to do something that it wasn't designed to do. :o)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/26/2021 10:39PM by David Baylor.