Norman

It;s not a problem to bond a tip to a blank. The problem arises when well meaning passionate folks insist that their way is the only way.

For those who prefer hot melt I applaud your decision.

For those who prefer epoxy I applaud your decision.

The end result is that tips get attached to blanks and life goes on.

Russell Brunt Wrote:
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> Kent, you would think it would be guys like you
> and me that live in the hotter climates than would
> be anti hot melt tip adhesive. Yet I have never
> had a problem with it, even when leaving rods in a
> hot car on 90+ degree days. Way more important to
> me to be able to change a tip easily when on a
> long range fishing trip. All I need is my Bic
> lighter and some cement.
>
> I doubt I would consider using epoxy on anything
> less than roller tips and 50/80# class minimum.

I agree Russ! So I did some checking and here are the results... in hot Florida summer sun, inside of cars and vehicles:

[www.clickorlando.com]

Florida Hospital broke down the universities' findings once the study was complete. Here's a closer look at some of the numbers:
• A vehicle parked in the sun for one hour reached an average cabin temperature of 116 degrees.
• In a locked vehicle, a dark dashboard, steering wheel or seat can often reach temperature ranges of 180 - 200 degrees F, which then warms the air trapped inside a vehicle.

Here's what they found on temperatures in vehicles parked in the shade versus the sun:

• The average cabin temperature for vehicles parked in the sun during the trip hit 116 degrees in one hour. Dashboards averaged 157 degrees, while steering wheels reached 127 degrees and seats rose to 123 degrees.
• Interior temperatures were closer to 100 degrees after one hour in vehicles parked in the shade. Dashboards averaged 118 degrees, while steering wheels reached 107 degrees and seats rose to 105 degrees.

[www.sciencedirect.com]

Hot-melt adhesives based on aliphatic copoly(amide)s are used in the textiles field. The desired melting temperatures are around 176–266°F. These properties are adjusted by the special combination of the monomers.

And,

Hot-melt adhesives are thermoplastic bonding materials applied as melts that achieve a solid state and resultant strength on cooling. These thermoplastic 100% solid materials melt in the temperature range from 149°F to 356°F. Theoretically, any thermoplastic can be a hot-melt adhesive, but the ten or so preferred materials are usually solid up to 174.92°F or higher..."

-----------------------------------

I've never had an issue either and I rotate through about 70 rods or more. I remain one of those who avoid epoxy on tips.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/25/2021 01:56PM by Kent Griffith.

When I travel to and from fishing locations my rods are never left out in the open anyway they're inside long flannel sleeves at a minimum and often slid into a large crush proof tube, never in direct sunlight or near a dashboard. I do understand that people who have experienced repeated tip top issues trying to prevent the issue from continuing to happen by using some other type of adhesive . I think any of us would attempt to try and correct that issue if we experienced problems but as said already many of us have found no need to ever go a different route because we have found hot melt adhesives purposely made for tip top use does a fantastic job.

People should know that hot melt glues vary so don't think a stick of hot melt glue is the same as any other because that's not the case . I keep the stick for tip tops in a certain container away from other types because some can look similar .

Russell, I won’t post the manufacture but it is a WELL established company in the rod building world. I wish not to try and highlight a product of theirs. I am sure I probably did something wrong but regardless it didn’t work and I am now comfortable with using epoxy, while it may not be the preferred method for many it is what I have chosen to use. Best of luck in whichever direction you go with. Most importantly go catch fish!!

Well that makes it pretty easy to figure out , it's either Flex Coat 5 minute epoxy, Devcon 5 minute epoxy, ProGlue 5 minute epoxy, ProPaste fast set epoxy or Threadmaster Optimum 5 minute epoxy.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/25/2021 03:40PM by chris c nash.

Thomas, the brand I use(d) is no long in the business so I have no qualms mentioning I have been using Gudebrod ferrule cement for as long as I can remember.

It would be interesting if the different results, and hence different preferences now, came down to certain brand(s) used in the past.

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

LOL!

The only drawback to using hot-melt adhesive is carelessly overheating the tip of the rod blank and deforming/weakening it. I used stick shellac to affix broadheds to arrow shafts Many Years ago and it worked just fine, enduring much greater stresses than a tip-top has to face.

Stick Shellac for attaching broadheads , now we're talking about a VERY long time ago ( BC era) when Zwickey broadheads and Bear broadheads ruled . Screw in's have been the norm for decades .

You don't heat the tip of the rod blank to install a tip top Phil you heat the hot melt or the tube with hot melt already inside . There's no way you will overheat a tip top if you used hot melt glue to install it . All it takes is a very quick flash of heat and it slides right off . Now with epoxy you can definitely overheat the tip of the rod because it requires more heat applied for a longer period of time to get the tip top to come loose .

I won't even get into needing a dremel to cut the tip top end off to remove it . It should never be necessary to come to that point imo .

I use this stuff now. HWI Tipsie Dust PyroCrystalline Epoxy Played around with it and once I understood how to melt it correctly, the stuff is strong. Left a tip top in my car back window for a test on a 92* day and couldn’t twist it off.

Tipsie dust is just a grounded up hot melt adhesive . The manufacturer states that all tip top adhesives are just regular craft glue sticks but that's not true and they know it .

Chris. You are wrong on all accounts. I had a failure with a hot melt tip top adhesive and have since switched to 5minepoxy. I have used all that you mentioned with zero failures

Regardless of brand/type of melt adhesives all the failures and damage I have seen using these products resulted from user error, not product fault. For a thousand + years hot-melt glue affixed bodkin arrowheads to wooden shafts when failure of the bond was a matter of life and death, not inconvenience. Stick shellac worked fine with bodkins on Port Orford White Cedar arrow staves.

Thomas Kaufmann Wrote:
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> Chris. You are wrong on all accounts. I had a
> failure with a hot melt tip top adhesive and have
> since switched to 5minepoxy. I have used all that
> you mentioned with zero failures



What are you referring to exactly ? Everything I stated is 100% true , I understand you're one of a very very select few that has had a failure with hot melt adhesive but the fact is the overwhelming majority have not and all you have to do is read these threads that are currently active or in the archives because they prove it .

Phil Ewanicki Wrote:
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> Regardless of brand/type of melt adhesives all the
> failures and damage I have seen using these
> products resulted from user error, not product
> fault.




I agree Phil . Now about you battling the French back in the day using Bodkins , you're a living artifact and my guess hundred's if not thousands of years old .

Kent Griffith Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas Kaufmann Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > 5 min epoxy and be done w it!
>
> And when the tip breaks, then what?
>
> I use to think the same thing, but I have revised
> my methods since... I would not recommend epoxy,
> but that is just me...

When the tip breaks attach a piece of fishing wire...or braided line...to the tip....the other end to something solid......apply gentle heat with a heat gun while pulling on the rod at the same time. The adhesive will loosen up long before there is any damage to the blank underneath. I have done it many times. I started using 5 min epoxy after I had 2 stand up rods go out of action on an overnight tuna trip.....I swore it would never happen again..and it hasn't.

Chris I am referring to your reference to 5 minute epoxies that I had a failure with..... the failure was with hot melt. “Well that makes it pretty easy to figure out , it's either Flex Coat 5 minute epoxy, Devcon 5 minute epoxy, ProGlue 5 minute epoxy, ProPaste fast set epoxy or Threadmaster Optimum 5 minute epoxy. “

NONE of these have ever failed it was HOT MELT that failed

Your statement of everything you stated is 100% true is in fact completely false

Thomas Kaufmann Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Chris I am referring to your reference to 5 minute
> epoxies that I had a failure with..... the failure
> was with hot melt. “Well that makes it pretty
> easy to figure out , it's either Flex Coat 5
> minute epoxy, Devcon 5 minute epoxy, ProGlue 5
> minute epoxy, ProPaste fast set epoxy or
> Threadmaster Optimum 5 minute epoxy. “
>
> NONE of these have ever failed it was HOT MELT
> that failed
>
> Your statement of everything you stated is 100%
> true is in fact completely false


Thomas after looking it over it looks like I misread what you were saying . When you said you did not want to mention the names of the company to Russ I thought you were talking about the manufacturers of the 5 minute epoxy's because that's what you had success with and I didn't know why you didn't want to list them so I decided to list them and said it's got to be one of these . I never mentioned any hot melt adhesives because that's what you had failures with .

No worries Chris all is good