Hey guys. So I’m still brand new to rod building and only have a couple builds under my belt, all of which have been just your typical lighter inshore saltwater spinning setups. I live in Florida and go offshore a lot with my buddy and I eventually want to start building heavier duty conventional bottom rods for grouper and other bottom fish. I’d like to say I’ve gotten a pretty decent understanding of guide spacing and sizing for the most part on those simple inshore spinning builds, but I don’t know the first thing about the spacing and sizing and # of guides for bottom rods like that, and I haven’t really been able to find any good information online anywhere about it. Anyone think they could link me to some resources about it if they’ve been able to find any previously or even just explain it here if you’re familiar with grouper rods like that, anything is appreciated.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/13/2021 03:37PM by Guy Daines.

Buy a Batson blank. Then you have the blank number.

Go to the Batson guidespacing PDF files. Scroll down and find your blank. All the numbers are there: Guide sizes and part numbers, guide spacing, reel seat size, etc.

Tape the guides on according to the specs. (In the photo I am using small zip ties for the heavy guides)

Flex the rod with a reel mounted and line through the guides.

Make minor adjustments as required.

Easy as pie.

50 pound blank below, 8 feet, one piece. Wrapping up for Halibut fishing with 10 to 16 oz jigs.

White rod in the background is a Salmon Mooching rod. Looks bent but it ain't, wide angle lens distortion.





Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 06/13/2021 06:41PM by John Ricks.

A lot is the same. In general one guide more than the length of the rod in feet. Sometimes you need more, sometimes a lot more. Static guide testing will reveal all.

Size the smallest guide to the task at hand and any knots that need to be passed.

The ring size of the guide nearest the reel will be largely determined by the size/height of the reel. A 6/0 is going to need a larger guide than a ABU 6500.

You don't need a lot of line capacity for bottom fishing. With braid and today's "super reels" you can get by with a much smaller reel. The US Senator is a great reel but you can do fine with something like a Torium 16.

I find I seldom need to go much bigger than a 20/25 for a butt guide and I probably wouldn't go smaller than an 8 for running guides on a grouper rod. If building on top I use double foot guides. Typically three transition guides to the runners. If I spiral wrap, and I encourage you to do so, you can get by with less guides and use all the same size single foot guides as runners. You won't be casting so the simple bumper type with one guide on top, one at 90 degrees, and all the rest on the bottom is fine.

I like composite blanks for grouper. Lamiglas Triflex are nice and seriously underrated in power. I have a 7' 15-30# rated kayak/inshore series that I think I could deadlift 40#' with!

I'm guessing you are middle of the way up on the west coast. If so aren't your grouper more in the 10-20# range? If that is true you have some other options to consider like a musky blank and one of the new low profile reels (lexa/tranx/komodo). That would make for an incredible light outfit that is capable with some finesse in your technique.

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

Good words Russel

I am in the Pacific NW, fishing is a different thing here. Salmon Mooching, trolling and jigging, Bottom fishing for Halibut. Up to 600 to 800 feet deep for Halibut, but my biggest was caught in 60 feet of water, right on the bottom. 126 pounds. Back in my unknowing days, the reel was a Penn 209, 30 pound dacron, and a stiff 6 foot boat rod. Had a good time getting a tail rope on as I was by myself in the boat.

Now I am going with Penn 320 and 330 reels for the halibut, 65 pound braid, 8 foot 40 to 60 lb rods. I match the rods to the weight of the jigs I am using. Wimpy rods just will not work the jigs properly. I have several of the more modern reels (think AVET), not too big, good drags and good line capacity. Bit the Penn 320 and 330 reels get the nod in my boat, especially if I have guests on board, due to the level winds. I like 8 footers in order to put a lot of action on the jigs.

Salmon mooching rods anywhere from 8 1/2 feet to 9 1/2 feet, the old Penn 109 reel was a favorite as you can back up the reel, think "Bait Runner". Lamiglas MB1143F was the blank in the old days.

I am wrapping two rods now for mooching on 8-1/2 foot musky blanks, mainly for the stiffness required for working the plug cut herring with up to 8 ounces of sinker at depths up to 300 feet. Weight required to get the bait down in the current. Reels are the Penn 310, this is also a reversible "bait runner" reel. 50 pound braid. These rods would be great for small FLA grouper as they are very light and extremely strong blanks. Rainshadow IMU86XH. I think the new version is REVM810H

Guy,
I also agree that Russell offered good advice, especially concerning spiral wrapping the guides. If you do not already know, learn how to tie the FG knot; it is the thinnest possible, distributes line stress over a larger area of the knot = ultimately stronger, and 50lb braid will easily pass through a size 6 guide. Fuji KWs for rods up to 40lb (with optional single foot KB runners), HBs to 80lb, and rollers after that. A size 16 butt guide will accommodate all but the largest diameter reels and if using the newer compact / low-profile reels, a size 12 can be employed. Just make sure the line will not contact the hand while holding the fore-grip of the rod while under full load yet comfortable to thumb the line onto the spool. Those parameters have helped me build a number of excellent performing rods for fishing Calico, Yellowtail, Dorado, WSB and Tuna here in SoCal. I cannot speak for truly giant Grouper as our rock fish rarely exceed 15lb and a 70lb Halibut would be considered a monster.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

There are interesting parallels between bottom fishing in Florida and you guys on the west coast. For example we are often fishing plug cut herring (or ballyhoo) with 8 ounces of weight. Sometimes we might have to go as much as 16 ounces. Often we are using bigger live baits, like a 1/2 pound to one pound goggle eye/blue runner/yellowtail snapper. Seldom are we fishing more than 300 feet though. I would imagine grouper and halibut are much the same type of fight. Our grouper hold tight to structure and it is all about the first several feet. A nice fish is in the 30-40# range but nobody is complaining with one half that size. There are some grouper that are caught in very deep waters but those aren't commonly targeted. I never knew what salmon mooching was about. I find it curious that you would favor such a long rod. Seems like it would be tough on the back.

P.S. John, take a look at the shimano charter special. I personally think it is a better reel but you might feel differently.

Mark, your Yellowtail are tough fighters. I would think tackle would be quite similar. In our case we need to muscle the groupers out of the rocks. You guys need to get the yellowtails to the boat before a sea lion eats them:) Too bad as I have always thought they would be a worthy adversary on light tackle.

Anyhow, back to Guy. In the past one would use a 4/0 to 6/0 black side late senator on a IFGA 30-50# glass blank. That morphed into smaller "super reels" with braid and composite blanks. If the fish aren't too big a graphite musky blank and a low profile saltwater reel makes for a featherweight fishing catching machine. Just make sure you use a gaff/net.

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

Yea bottom fish are bottom fish.

Mooching Salmon, using a plug cut herring, sometimes is challenging due to the big tidal currents out here in the Straits of Juan de Fuca. Basically a big ditch 12 to 20 miles wide, over 100 miles in length, and it feeds all of Puget Sound from the Pacific.
High current velocity during the minus tides, June is the worst month for the big tides. Often a challenge to get the bait down, much less make it work properly to attract the big Chinook. Since I retired I pick my days carefully to avoid the big currents. Chinook want a nice tight fast spin on the bait as it travels through the water. Most of the big Chinook are on the bottom, so the rods I use must be able to handle the sinker weight when bucking the current and have enough sensitivity in the tip to detect a slight strike.

Halibut are different. Put anything near one and you will have a hit. Jigs, big white grubs, bait of all types. Not a lot of fight just a big dead weight. Like pulling up a sheet of plywood with an eyebolt bolted to the center. Problems occur when near the surface, often they want to sound all the way back to the bottom.

I like the Penns for unexperienced folks on the boat as the level wind avoids both line pile ups on the spool plus thumb cuts from the braid when laying the line even. And they are cheap if one goes overboard, think I have about 5 outfits on the bottom over the years. I have started tethering the "guest" rods to a cleat.

I have too many reels in the collection now, never will get to use all of them. Although sometimes I will take out one of my Avets or Accurates.

I grew up in SE Georgia and NE Florida, I sure do miss the Florida fishing! Have had thoughts about moving back years ago but now I am way too old. Fishing up here in WA is highly regulated with very short seasons. Too many people after the fish: Commercials, Tribal and Sportfishing.

Back to rods: As soon as I finish the surf rod for the Bro in Law I will start on the Musky Blanks. The things are awesome, rated 36 to 80. 8-1/2 feet and very light. A combination of braid line and the sensitivity of the composite blank should be a winner for a deep water mooching rod. Gotta hurry, Chinook season opens July 15.