I am getting back into making rods after having made 3 in the last ten years. Clearly many advancements have been made. Last I knew, Fuji New Concept in Alconite was the way to go. Small, light and more guides for stress distribution is clearly what i am seeing in factory and customs, not too different than in the past. Here is the big question that will surely get ideas tossed around....what brand, series are popular right now. Years ago I used Fuji SIC and gold cermet. Great hardware. Not sure if the extra cost was needed as many of my alconites are still going strong for far less. Weight is probably most important and size is going to have the greatest impact over materials. I am building a 6'8" ML Rainshadow Immortal spinning rod for walleye. So... ideas?

You can't go wrong with the American Tackle Microwave systems. There are both Spinning and Casting variants for just about anything you want to do, including competition Carp Rod guides! My personal favorite is their newest system, the MW25 in black. I have used them on inshore saltwater rods and on light Trout rods, and have been extremely pleased in both applications! They just work for me, and I believe they would be great on a Walleye rod!

Fuji KR concept using Fuji guides.

Fuji KLH reduction train and KB / KT running guides. Available in a lot of ring options and frame finishes. If you are using the right leader/line setup you can go very small and light to keep the rod very sensitive. The KR software on their site (Anglersresource-Fuji link in left margin) if bullet proof. I use it for the reduction setup, don't even test cast any more, and the two line stress test from their tutorial for the running guide spacing. I like size 4 running guides for spin, but there are options to be based on your lines and knot clearance needs.

Scot,
Or you could go with Pac Bay Minima guides.

When using these guides for a spinning rod, I prefer to use a match guide for the stripper and lower for the rest of the guides. Takes care of any line slap issues.
Lightweight, strong and inexpensive.

Best wishes

Fuji KR concept guides. Avoid microwave marketing product, and SIC guides not necessary unless hauling in really huge fish. Too hard and too brittle and too easily broken and not worth expense.

I agree with comments recommending using smaller standard spinning guides, usually 3 reduction guide train into micro guides. Love how these perform and operate. I go a little smaller in the reduction guide train than stock Skeet Reese rods like this one:

Seaguide offers a Fuji KLH style frame that cost a little less and is high quality. You can still get Alconite in KLH frames frames from Fuji. The newest ring material that Fuji offers is called Torzite and they are very proud of it $$$. My gude trains for something like that would be KLH 20, 10 and 5 with KB 4s and KT 4s runners and a 4.5 or 5 tip top.

I use Pac Bay minima guides with a Fuji SIC tip.

Have fun

What size reel and what type and size line are you planning on using? Knowing these does make a difference in the guide train selected. If using braid a KR concept is the the way to go. The size of the reel will help determine the guide sizes used in the reduction train.
Norm

I have used all the above and they all have positive aspects. Personally I prefer the KR concept.

I will be putting a Shimano Stradic 2500 on it. 8lb mono filament.

I have used most brands of guides in the past and in recent years. Thank you for sharing the information about KR concept. This is something new that i was unfamiliar with, just getting back into things. Obviously there are many vids and sites explaining the concept. Anglers Resource app is quite handy.

The only thing I should add is that Fuji is no longer making BLACK guides in any configuration. Big mistake the way i see it so if you want black guides you will have to look elsewhere

For myself, if building on a black blank - I prefer the use of black guides.

I have a guide axiom that has served me well on quite a few builds. If it is a lighter rod, built on a great blank, that I am going to use many hours a day, I go with either Fuji Torzite or SeaGuide Titanium/Silicon Nitride guides. These will be noticeably better in this combination of situations. If it is just a bit heavier rod, and one that I will use for a bit less time, I go with the SeaGuide Titanium/Silicon Nitride guides as the price/performance ratio is just crazy good. If it is a heavier rod, and one I will sparingly use, I go with the Mudhole LZR guides as they are a good product that tilts towards value with suitable performance. The advantage of light guides on a heavy rod are muted by the weight of the blank. The advantage of high quality guides on a rod that mostly sits on the deck is less realized. The LZR guides haven’t failed me. I doubt they are inferior in quality to what American Tackle is importing from China with their murky affiliation with Mudhole. There is a different price point that favors the LZR’s.

I’ve extensively researched guides, frame and ring materials, and Doug Hannon’s patents. I just can’t see where the currently offered MW system beats small ringed guide systems from Fuji or SeaGuide on a price/performance ratio. When the extra weight and modifications to Doug’s system is taken into consideration, I’m fully taking a hard pass. Fuji uses marketing names, like Torzite, but they have invested huge R&D money into their line. SeaGuide sticks with industry standard material names that can be easily understood and researched. AT uses marketing names with much less than Fuji investment into R&D. It is hard to know what they are really importing. I know several great engineers who can’t figure out what is actually being offered from descriptions given. Gary Loomis just warned us on this kind of strategy in his 80th birthday remarks on this forum. Some kind of zirconia might be fairly decent, or not. Most ceramic guides are going to work well, it’s a matter if the customer is getting a good value relative to what other choices are available.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/01/2021 02:50AM by Kendall Cikanek.

For your 6’8” ML blank with a 2500 reel using 8 lb mono, I would use KR concept guides. I’d use either a KL20H, KL10H, and KL5.5M, or KL16H, KL8H, and KL5.5M for the reduction train. The KL16H based reduction train will work great and would be lighter. The KL20H based reduction train would offer a little more versatility if you wish to use a larger reel or heavier line. The KL-H guides are basically match type guides and thus have a higher frame than other style guides with the same ring size. Either of these reduction trains are followed by KB/KT running guides in the size of your choice (5, 4.5, or 4). I use one or two KB running guides after the reduction guides, followed by KT running guides the rest of the way. In you case, the stripper/butt guide is placed 19 to 20” in front of the reel spool and the KB choke guide will be placed about 19 to 22” in front of the stripper/butt guide. The two remains reduction guides are progressively placed between the stripper/butt and the choke guides. The remaining running guides are progressively placed between the choke and tip top. The guide placement is then finalized via the static test and test casting. For a 6’8” rod I would use 8 to 9 guides total, which will be one or two more running guides then recommended by the KR GPS. In my experience the extra running guides gives a better static test and allows for more progressive spacing. The choke guide can certainly be moved in or out somewhat to get the spacing you like.
As mentioned above, other companies now offer KR-like guides, which can be set up similarly. Fuji has done all the research on how to set up a KR concept rod, and they make excellent guides. Hope this helps.
Norm

If 8lb monofilament is the line diameter you are looking to utilize on this build I would at the MW20 set. They also make a finesse version with the snagless frame. The multiple awards given to this component speak for themselves. These guides functionality and durability are far superior (especially for the price) to many other options I have used in the past.

Hi Scot/all,

I’ll comment to the original post first since I think it's appropriate. You mentioned the NGC which does indeed distribute line stress, as well as reducing weight toward the tip with smaller guides and it departs from traditional COF in order to capture and control the line quicker to obtain the aforementioned benefits. Like the NGC, another variation of using specific guide sizes/designs to reach those same benefits quicker and more efficiently is the KRConcept which I think is far better. Obvious weight distribution and line control allows the rapid choke controlling the line and permitting the blank to load and recover better thus promoting improved performance in casting and hook set. I would either use the KR guides per their concept or other brands with similar dimensions using their concept as it is sound. As far as ring choice, I think that unless a ring material can offer weight reduction, the practical benefits of moving from Alconite to another harder (or possibly smoother) material option are negligible.

The MicroWave Line Control System has similar goals of reducing guide weight toward the rod tip while achieving line capture and control which it is able to achieve this immediately in the first guide helping maintain line speed for longer smoother casts. Line control combined with the improved weight distribution lets the blank load and recover better to allow the rod to do more work using less angler energy to load. This system is primarily patterned to general reel size in a one size fits most complete set, with stripper and transition guide location recommended (although there are different stripper size sets). An unorthodox appearance could be objectionable to some but performance and attributes cannot be disputed. Once tried, we’ve found that many builders love this new system for both practical performance and easy application.

Now to some of the comments regarding American Tackle; I would think that if one were to claim to research guides, frame materials, and Doug Hannon’s patents, for the purpose of comparison or even trying to call an organization out, I would have thought that they would first contact American Tackle directly with any questions or explanations. Especially before offering conjecture of product origin, material composition, murky affiliation, or even the assumption of R & D expenditure. The posted statement of inaccuracies bares the results of that lack of that direct communication…. As if spending an amount of money authorizes the ability to create and use marketing names? I think not, in fact all firms mentioned have created marketing names including Fuji, G. Loomis, Sea Guide, American Tackle and every other company who must rely on commerce and marketing of their own product. Not to mention that common sense dictates at some point and time any and every material, product, or development must be named….. I guess if enough money is spent.

Darrin Heim
American Tackle Company

There should be a "like" button for Darri's comments.

I called you politely, three times. The first two times I got disconnected. The third time, I got very little in the way of meaningful answers. What is your affiliation with Mudhole?

The KR 16 reduction train with 8lb. mono and a 1/4 oz. weight will cast at least 100 ft. I usually go with the 20 for flexibility.