I
nternet gathering place for custom rod builders
  • Custom Rod Builders - This message board is provided for your use by the sponsors listed on the left side of the page. Feel free to post any question, answers or topics related in any way to custom building. When purchasing products please remember those who sponsor this board.

  • Manufacturers and Vendors - Only board sponsors are permitted and encouraged to promote and advertise products on the board. You may become a sponsor for a nominal fee. It is the sponsor fees that pay for this message board.

  • Rules - Rod building is a decent and rewarding craft. Those who participate in it are assumed to be civilized individuals who are kind and considerate in their dealings with others. Please respond to others in the same fashion in which you would like to be responded to. Registration IS NOW required in order to post. You must include your actual First and Last name and a correct email address when registering or posting. Posts which are inflammatory, insulting, or that fail to include a proper name and email address will be removed and the persons responsible will be barred from further participation.

    Registration is now required in order to post. You must include your actual First and Last name and a correct email address when registering or posting.
SPONSORS

ICRBE 2021
EXPO ON FACEBOOK
CCS Database
Int. Custom Rod Symbol
Common Cents Info
American Tackle
Anglers Rsrc - Fuji
BatsonRainshadowALPS
BRC Rods
Banana River Rods
Cork Specialties LLC
CRB
HNL Rod Blanks–CTS
CTS New Zealand
Custom Fly Grips LLC
Decal Connection
Flex Coat Co.
Get Bit Outdoors
Hitena USA
HYDRA
Janns Netcraft
Lucas Mfg Co.
Mickel's Custom Rods
Mudhole Custom Tackle
MHX Rod Blanks
North Fork Composites
ProProducts
REC Components
ReelSeatBlanks.com
Renzetti Inc.
Rod Builders Warehouse
RodHouse France
RodMaker Magazine
RodMaker Blog
Schneiders Rod Shop
SeaGuide Corp.
Struble Mfg.
Tackleworks
The Rod Room
Trondak U-40
Utmost Enterprises
VooDoo Rods
ZipCast

Pages: 12Next
Current Page: 1 of 2
Gen 4 Second Coat ?
Posted by: Michael Sutheimer (---.wi.res.rr.com)
Date: May 23, 2021 11:07PM

Been using Gen 4 lite. Been very happy with it on ul and light rods with one coat. Did a med action and one coat not quite enough for me. Going to do a second coat. But not sure exactly when I will get to it. Anyone had any issues waiting maybe three or four days?

Also anyone had trouble cleaning brushes with Gen4. I have ruined two brushes now. Did my usual acetone dip and wipe and the next day they have been stiff as a board.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Gen 4 Second Coat ?
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: May 23, 2021 11:11PM

Three or four days should be okay.

Try washing your brushes with hand soap and a cold water rinse AFTER the Acetone cleaning. That should return the brushes to their original texture.

.............

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Gen 4 Second Coat ?
Posted by: roger wilson (---)
Date: May 24, 2021 11:36AM

Michael,
I have sometimes gone a month or two between coats.
I simply tack off the rod with blue masking tape and apply the next coat with 0 issues.

To apply finish, I simply buy inexpensive disposable brushes. I use the brushes once and pitch them, after the finish has cured. No cleaning, no cleaning fumes, and no time spent cleaning a brush.

Best wishes

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Gen 4 Second Coat ?
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: May 24, 2021 11:59AM

Try using U40 or Flex Coat brush cleaners. Both work fine on just about anything, including Gen 4.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Gen 4 Second Coat ?
Posted by: Michael Ward (---)
Date: May 25, 2021 02:47PM

I have been squeeging as much of the gen4 as I can and then wiping with a DNA saturated paper towel - followed by several dips in U40 brush cleaner and “scrubs” on the paper towel - and also still finding more fine haired sable type brushes to dry fairly stiff. The “cheapo” mudhole or flex coat brushes clean better - probably due to the more course grained bristles

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Gen 4 Second Coat ?
Posted by: Mark Talmo (---)
Date: May 25, 2021 03:48PM

Michael,
The best bond between multiple coats is a chemical bond which is achieved by applying the second coat as soon as the first is set-up enough to not move (say 6-10 hours) but still not cured. Since most of our epoxies require a few days (3-7) to fully cure, Tom is correct with his suggestion of within 3-4 days.
However, I also agree with Roger’s statement “a month or two” as long as no contamination has settled on the surface = after all, we are not building structural composite laminates for NASA! In the end, attempt to apply the second coat after the first has cured overnight; if a few days has gone by = don’t worry about it; if a few months have gone by = you are probably still OK and no one will know the difference.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Gen 4 Second Coat ?
Posted by: roger wilson (---)
Date: May 26, 2021 12:28AM

Michael,
I use these brushes:

[www.walmart.com]

Nylon brushes that typically never lose a bristle.

12.5 cents per brush.

These are not the same as flex coat brushes, but are similar in design and construction.

I use these brushes once. i.e. I use a fresh brush for each time that I mix up a batch of epoxy thread finish. When the application if finished, I lay the brush on top of the plastic mixing cup and check the brush and the contents of the cup to check to see if the finish has cured.

I normally use standard flex coat thread finish and I normally only have to use 1+ coat of finish. By that I mean that I apply a single coat of finish and after about 5 minutes of checking, if I find any thin spots, I will add a dab of finish on that spot and use a bit of gentle heat from a heat gun to have it flow nicely into the rest of the finish. Then, let the rod cure overnight and I can generally ship the rod the following afternoon.

A single thread finish drying cycle means more production in less time in the shop.

At the cost per brush and the fact that I normally only use a single brush per rod, it is less than the cost of a single running guide on any rod and thus there is no point in trying to spend the time, effort and money to clean the brush.

Normally on thread finish application, the brush really does not spread the finish. The loaded brush is used to get the finish next to the rotating rod and the rod will pull the finish off the brush - with very little brush involvement. That is why in my mind is it simply counter productive to use expensive brushes and then use time and spend the money on cleaning solutions to clean these expensive brushes - when neither is required.

Best wishes. s

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Gen 4 Second Coat ?
Posted by: Bill Sidney (---.gci.net)
Date: May 26, 2021 07:45PM

cleaning brush ????? at 18 CTS. per brush is it worth your time to clean ??? I don't think so but could be wrong .

William Sidney
AK

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Gen 4 Second Coat ?
Posted by: Norman Miller (---)
Date: May 26, 2021 10:19PM

I buy the cheap plastic brushes like Roger, but I reuse them. After using I squeeze out the excess epoxy using a paper towel and put the brush in a jar containing some acetone put the lid on and let them soak. When the jar is full of brushes I dry them on a paper towel and put them away. I’ve used them for years with no problems. I replace the acetone every once in a while. Hate to waste things that are still usable, but that’s just me.
Norm

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Gen 4 Second Coat ?
Posted by: Michael Sutheimer (---.wi.res.rr.com)
Date: May 27, 2021 02:32AM

I would like to go to disposable brushes. Have not found any I like. I mainly build light and UL rods. I like to use a small rather stiff chisel type brush. I don't like a brush that fans out. Need something that the bristles are crimped in a straight line. All the disposables I have found are packed in circular bundle. Even if I trim them they still fan out unpredictable when you apply any type of pressure. Which is fine for applying to the center of the wrap but don't like the extra care needed to get a nice straight edge on the ends of the wraps.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Gen 4 Second Coat ?
Posted by: chris c nash (70.40.87.---)
Date: May 27, 2021 09:40PM

I don't go crazy with brushes but I also don't care for the throw away types that are explained above either , I prefer brushes with widths that are a little less wide than the width's of my wraps and I like a rather stiff brush . I have tried quite a few types and either they're way too narrow for my liking , they lose their bristles way too easy or they're way too soft . I find wider brush lengths much easier to distribute the epoxy around the wrap but don't brush it on either .

U40 brush cleaner is idiot proof , works extremely well without harsh fumes .

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Gen 4 Second Coat ?
Posted by: Robert Flowers (---)
Date: May 29, 2021 01:29AM

I have seen where dental spatulas are used to ally the thread coat. The person who did it had very nice thread coats.

Tight lines and frisky fish.

RJF

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Gen 4 Second Coat ?
Posted by: Michael Sutheimer (---.wi.res.rr.com)
Date: May 29, 2021 06:17PM

I have tried spatulas. Got frustrated with it. Would overload the spatula and end up with too much epoxy where I did not want it. Runs off way faster than it does from a brush. With enough practice might be the way to go. Just have not had the patience to try it some more.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Gen 4 Second Coat ?
Posted by: Russell Brunt (---.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net)
Date: May 30, 2021 07:59PM

I also like a decent quality brush close to the width of my wraps. I use what is called a flat brush but sometimes use a bright. I find the Loew-Cornell Taklon acceptable and affordable.

I have been wanting to try the Gen 4 but if it is a brush destroyer that is a deal breaker for me. I have no complaints with the Threadmaster lite that I have been using.

Hmmm Michael. "Even if I trim them they still fan out unpredictable when you apply any type of pressure" I think you are a more experienced builder than I but I would suggest to don't actually let the brush touch the wrap, leave alone apply pressure. BTW, what are your impressions on Gen 4 finish so far?

I'd like to ask you about UL builds if that is okay. Definitely not my wheelhouse but changes require I consider it. I would never do such a thing without explicit permission. We have each other's email address already.

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Gen 4 Second Coat ?
Posted by: Michael Sutheimer (---.wi.res.rr.com)
Date: May 30, 2021 10:20PM

Russ feel free to email. The issue with the brush fanning out is when I am doing my edges. I will hold my brush with about half it's width on the wrap half hanging off on the blank will applying pressure. This will give me a nice edge. I then go to just letting the brush barely touch and flow the finish off for the rest of the wrap.

I am using the Gen 4 lite. Other than the brush cleanup I would say it is as close to a perfect finish as I have used. Levels exceptionally well and something about it really seems to make thread colors exceptionally vibrant. I use two coats of Flexcoat CP then the Gen 4. Only slight issue is it will thicken a bit fairly quickly. In the first five minutes or so it will be like a very light build finish which I like. It then goes to kinda a med build viscosity and maintains that for as long as it takes to do a rod. What I have done is make sure I start coating from the tip down so I am using the lightest finish on the thinnest wraps. Works great.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Gen 4 Second Coat ?
Posted by: roger wilson (---)
Date: May 31, 2021 09:17AM

Michael,
Out of curiosity.
From the time you stop mixing until you have completed the finish application for one coat - how much time has elapsed?

Take care

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Gen 4 Second Coat ?
Posted by: Michael Sutheimer (---)
Date: May 31, 2021 11:09AM

I am slow and fussy when I finish a rod. I will typically spend about three minutes a guide wrap. Don't do large butt wraps. Probably spend twenty minutes on average. Finish still plenty usuable after that time. After that initial thickening finish seems to thicken very little.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Gen 4 Second Coat ?
Posted by: roger wilson (---)
Date: June 01, 2021 12:09AM

Michael,
Every one is different.
If this works for you - great. Carry on.

For myself, since I work in a production environment, I typically spend about 5-10 minutes total on applying finish to a rod and generally that is the only finish that I will have to apply.

As Mr. Kirkman has said many times over the years; get the finish on the rod, keep the rod turning and the finish will take care of itself.

Best wishes.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Gen 4 Second Coat ?
Posted by: Michael Sutheimer (---.wi.res.rr.com)
Date: June 01, 2021 12:56AM

I am working towards cutting my time. I have a lot of confidence in the Gen 4. Other than getting my edges nice and clean I am definitely trying to cut back my time and letting the finish do the work. Trying to get into doing more rods. But right now about six a year is all I can justify doing. Hard to get enough practice in to get a good technique that is fast and you have confidence in.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Gen 4 Second Coat ?
Posted by: Russell Brunt (---.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net)
Date: June 01, 2021 04:41PM

FWIW, the easiest way to get a clean edge is to use a hand rest and spin the blank at high RPM. That and do it as quickly as possible.

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

Options: ReplyQuote
Pages: 12Next
Current Page: 1 of 2


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
Webmaster