Personally, especially of late, I have been having a lot of "you have got to be kidding me" moments when someone talks about the extremes they go to to save weight in a build.

I mean seriously? Not covering the ends of guide feet with thread because it saves weight? There is no way a human being could tell the difference between a rod with wraps completed in the fashion described, and wraps that cover the entire guide foot. And a rod with the wraps covered with only CP may perform better than a rod with wraps coated with finish, it sure as heck isn't going to be as durable.

And as far as the attitude that pretty is a waste of time and potential rod performance, it may be to some, but "pretty" can and does play in how one fishes a rod. If you're proud of your equipment you're going to fish it more effectively, It's no different than when your truck or boat are nice and shiny. You feel better about driving them, and can actually bring you to feel that they're running better.

Weight isn't your enemy if it serves a purpose. And purpose can come in many forms.

Todd Andrizzi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tom, will saving weight make a huge difference to
> the average person or just to an individual who
> fishes every day? I fish a lot but do not consider
> myself an expert fisherman. I have only been able
> to tell very slight differences in different rods.
> If I am fishing with 2 different ML spin rods, it
> would be hard for me to tell the differences. Of
> course I could tell the difference in fishing a ML
> and a L. I think I understand what people are
> saying here. I am just not convinced of the HUGE
> differences some of you have talked about just by
> eliminating a few grams of weight.

Yes it will make a difference the average person can feel. Try it for yourself - take two different sets of guides, one a little heavier than the other, tape each one up on the same blank and go out and cast it a bit. You're going to find the one with the lighter guide set will be more responsive, balance better and have a higher rod speed than when it has the heavier set of guides on it.

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Kent, thanks for your help in getting us to leave this planet. The way many treat our resources, we will need to find better fishing waters somewhere.

At this point in my life I am in agreement with David and his post above. Tom, I can't say that you're wrong about trying different guides and noticing a difference unless I tried it. I highly doubt I could tell a difference in more or less grains or grams although I could most likely feel a difference in a few ounces which I don't believe you are talking about. I feel the weight thing has gotten a little out of hand. My opinion only.

Todd, Tom is right, Weight in the guide train is where the weight is most easily noticed, and where it has the greatest affect on rod performance. The further it is from the reel seat, the more easily it will be felt. You'll feel the difference more easily on a longer blank than a shorter one, and in a lighter powered blank versus a higher powered one.

My way of approaching a build is the way Lynn put it on the previous page. I'm going to choose components based on what I want out of the rod. Over all weight doesn't enter the equation for me. I want to protect the blank and extract every bit of power from the blank, so I add extra guides. The extra guides are in the running portion of the blank so their weight affects the rod's performance to a greater degree, but I don't care. My objective isn't to build the lightest rod I can build. I want to build the lightest rod I can build, that will have the attributes I want it to exude.

I've added 2 3/8 oz to the butt of one of my rods so it's clear I'm not concerned with the overall weight of the rod. I'm concerned how it performs the task at hand. If adding weight anywhere on the rod helps it perform the way I want it to, I'm all in.

David, weight isn't even in the equation for me when building. I never know how much anything (including the blank) weighs. I don't care. I use top components and that's what I like. I learned something on this thread though...that the weight of a rod isn't the issue due to fatigue of casting but instead, how the rod performs. I still say I wouldn't be able to tell a HUGE difference with a minimal weight difference. And, I'm surprised any body can. Maybe I'm just not in tune with my senses enough. When I'm fishing, I'm noticing the water, the wild life, the smell, wind, foliage and any female fishing women. I'm not concentrating on how light or even how powerful or responsive my rod is.

There is no resolution to this topic so build it the way you or the customer specifies and the weight is what it is.

DeMartini, there doesn't need to be a resolution...just learning. We learn from hearing the opinions and feelings of others. I love to hear why others do a particular action. I've learned from this thread. thanks!

Why is carbon considered a superior material for most aspects of fishing rod construction? Carbon in and of itself doesn't possess any magic. There is nothing mystical about it. But it does offer more stiffness per weight or less weight per stiffness than fiberglass. Granted, the weight reduction is marked and is easily felt in balance, rod speed, etc., but all weight savings will be cumulative. An eighth of an ounce, here, a sixteenth there, another eighth elsewhere and suddenly you have another marked improvement in performance.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/22/2021 08:57PM by Tom Kirkman.

Lots of info here on this specific topic. Go back a few years and read all you want. It's all been said before, many times. I've been involved in many weight related discussions. Not that people shouldn't ask questions, but it can be fun digging. Skip the topics that don't interest you.

After I spend hours fishing with my extra-super lightweight fishing rod I lift weights to stay in shape.

Seriously Phil, lifting weights was my suggestion for those who seemed so obsessed with weight reduction. I really thought if anglers had to obsess and stress with even grams of weight...perhaps they needed to spend some some in the gym. Now I realize it was a different reason....performance. I am still a high end believer that the novice or avg. fisherman could not tell a difference in a gram or two of weight.

Get some lead wire, like used by fly tiers and wrap 2 grams worth of it around the tip of the rod just behind the tiptop. Now go use it. I think that's all it would take for you to get a better idea of what even a slight bit of additional weight can do to a rod's performance.

...........

Tom, adding 2 grams of weight to a single area...especially the tip top is no where near the same as an evenly distributed 2 grams of weight. I will admit, I could probably tell the difference especially on a light rod. Do the same to a heavy sea rod and a person would notice it less. Here's an idea...what if I added a 2 gram hook keeper? How much would that change performance? I can understand that by building a rod with very heavy components can change the rod but I cannot grasp at all that building on two exact blanks and using very, very slightly heavier components evenly and correctly distributed throughout will make a "huge" difference where even an avg. fisherman could determine this "huge" difference. One member called it " a world of difference" I believe. I'm not a believer...sorry. I'm sorry I am not in agreement. and, I feel that is ok.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/23/2021 09:08AM by Todd Andrizzi.

It will make a difference that anyone can feel. You're just going to have to try it.

............

Adding a 2 gram hook keeper will make a difference anyone can fill or adding 2 grams evenly throughout the rod will add a difference anyone can feel? I have believe adding 2 grams just on the tip top will make a difference. I don't need to try a 2 gram hook keeper....I won't feel it.

I'm not talking about a 2 gram hookkeeer on the butt area and hope that's not what this thread was about. Take the full 2 grams off the tiptop and spread it out over the first 4 or 5 guides. You'll still feel a difference. Every little bit makes a difference. It's all cumulative.

...........

No Tom, the thread wasn't about a heavy hook keeper. My initial question was meant to mean cumulative weight in general. This is a study I'd be real interested in seeing done. It would take some time but not much $. If a person were to build 2 rods on the exact blanks but on one have it weigh two grams more evenly distributed. Then have 50 beginners try both rods and determine the rod they liked the best. Then take 50 novices and do the same. And finally, take 50 very good fisherman and have them do the same as the other two groups, I would put money on there not being an overwhelming liking to the rod built 2 grams lighter. I have read on here that builders won't even put a hook keeper on their builds because of the added weight. That's there choice 100% but if they say it increases performance by a "huge" amt. I have to call @#$%& to that.

I am thinking about adding a couple-twenty grams of weight to the tip of my spinning rod and canceling my membership at the gym if this leveraged weight is all it's cracked up to be.

HAHAHA! Phil, that's why I don't even consider weight reduction...I don't have a gym membership. With the savings from a membership, I can buy more rod building supplies. My comment on a study would be a smart idea (IMO). Those of you who swear by weight reduction = better performance should be all over it. Might get you published even. Another of my opinions ( I have a lot of em) is that the weight reduction people might fear the outcome. I doubt a non weight reducer would bother because they don't care. I'm in the not caring but curious why. Tom, to have a study where there is a 150 sample group and 50 in 3 categories would be a legit study. I ponder a lot and my pondering tells me it would be a guessing game where the samples would be saying, "I don't know which feels better." And, the tester saying, "you have to choose one." So...the sampler would say, "Ok then, I choose this one." I believe the results would be all over the place.