Hi:I looked in the library but no mention of this.
When locating the spine on a 4 piece fly rod
do you spine each piece individually?
Seems like this would be necessary except for the butt piece maybe...

Check "Strongest axis", eleven posts down.

David

You will get conflicting and accurate advise to your question, Many of the responses are based on personal experience and preference some are based on experiment. You have to digest all the information and decide what makes you comfortable.

I build along the straightest axis.

I noticed when I show a rod to someone the first thing they do is run a thumb over the but guide wrap comment on how neat it is and the next thing they do is sight along the guides and say " how do you get the guides so straight".

When I am at the store I always see folks sighting along the blank as part of the purchasing process.

This may not make sense but that is the way it is.

Have fun

John

I have been unable to find any published experimental results which indicate placement of a rod's spine influences the accuracy or distance that rod will deliver; no feet, no inches, just "my opinion".
Apparently rod building, like fishing, is an act of faith.

I have found roadbuilding to be very individualized. Many builders have their "best way" to do the different steps of building. As far as finding or building on the spine or the straightest "axis" of the blank... this also seems to be very individualized. My opinion is based on mine as well as other peoples opinion. I build on the spine. The reason is, if there is a spine (and I can usually find them easily) then I figure that is where the rod will bend and be the strongest. I feel that if I fish a rod built off the spine and I have a big fish run, will the rod be bending at it's strongest and most stable area. When I fight a fish and the fish runs to a side, I always turn my rod to accommodate the run...again, using the spine. It's interesting to me that builders mention building for performance and not appearance but then say they build on the straightest axis to have the guides look straight. I can still get my guides straight up or down even with a small bend in the blank. If I had a blank that was horribly bent...I'd send it back. A disclaimer for myself...I have only built 40-50 rods so I'm not a master builder. And, I build only for myself and family and gift the rods. I don't have to deal with a customer wanting specifics. I will continue to build with the spine in mind.

Todd Andrizzi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have found roadbuilding to be very
> individualized. Many builders have their "best
> way" to do the different steps of building. As far
> as finding or building on the spine or the
> straightest "axis" of the blank... this also seems
> to be very individualized. My opinion is based on
> mine as well as other peoples opinion. I build on
> the spine. The reason is, if there is a spine (and
> I can usually find them easily) then I figure that
> is where the rod will bend and be the strongest. I
> feel that if I fish a rod built off the spine and
> I have a big fish run, will the rod be bending at
> it's strongest and most stable area. When I fight
> a fish and the fish runs to a side, I always turn
> my rod to accommodate the run...again, using the
> spine. It's interesting to me that builders
> mention building for performance and not
> appearance but then say they build on the
> straightest axis to have the guides look straight.
> I can still get my guides straight up or down even
> with a small bend in the blank. If I had a blank
> that was horribly bent...I'd send it back. A
> disclaimer for myself...I have only built 40-50
> rods so I'm not a master builder. And, I build
> only for myself and family and gift the rods. I
> don't have to deal with a customer wanting
> specifics. I will continue to build with the spine
> in mind.


Actually, the data shows that is where the rod will be the weakest. Here is some test data we did for a magazine article on that very thing-

[www.rodbuilding.org]

.........

That's interesting to me. Then what if the straightest axis and the spine match up? Where do you build? I would really have to read more than one study to be a believer. To see where the majority stands and even then figure out in my own mind. I mentioned I am an old nurse. Over 40 Years of working I have read many, many studies on medications, heart attacks, surgeries and I have seen total turn arounds. These are life and death studies and different studies show different thinking. I will look more into the spine issue but as of now, I will build the way I have. I have never broken a rod other than the one I rolled up my window on. Thanks Tom.

Here's a thought I just had regarding this issue. Does anybody know for sure how Loomis, Sage, Winston, CTS and others build? Do they build on the spine or straightest axis or just random. If I knew all or most of these builders built a certain way...I'd most likely change. When you know the best rod makers in the world are doing something...I most likely would follow. Any of you know what criteria these companies use to decide where to hang their guides?

every person will build to what they want / like / need , I do all my FLY rod's an yes it is not easy on the thicker sections ,
but it can be dun , there again not easy, any deep bending , RODS / BLANKS ,
can work then selves up an move during a day of heavy fishing , if the rod/ blank don't flex a lot [ heavy bending ]
chance you will never see it , how I see it , an a lot of people will not see it my way ,

William Sidney
AK

Tom, I was not trying to argue with you. I don't know if that's why you didn't respond. That was a very sincere question. I love to learn and we learn by asking questions. Any body...considering the spine is the weakest area of a blank...If the straightest axis and the spine happen to be the same, where do you hang the guides so the rod is not weak? Also...if anyone already knows, how do the best rod companies in the world deal with the spine theory? Thanks.

And the saga continues; and will, most likely will continue to do so.

The rod IS NOT going to be 'Weak' regardless of spine orientation , as the article in the library indicates the differences are extremely minimal & to most imperceptible. Some of the best reading to be found anywhere is in the archives as discussions on 'Spine' are endless .

I have emailed a few of the top rod building companies and heard back from one...Sage. I asked how they deal with the "spine" when building their rods. His answer was..."what spine? ;). He said they don't deal with it at all. They look down each section with some "well trained" eyes and determine the absolute straightest line and build on that. That's big for me...I have a lot of confidence in Sage. Waiting on other answers.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/14/2021 05:17PM by Todd Andrizzi.

Todd Andrizzi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That's interesting to me. Then what if the
> straightest axis and the spine match up? Where do
> you build? I would really have to read more than
> one study to be a believer. To see where the
> majority stands and even then figure out in my own
> mind. I mentioned I am an old nurse. Over 40 Years
> of working I have read many, many studies on
> medications, heart attacks, surgeries and I have
> seen total turn arounds. These are life and death
> studies and different studies show different
> thinking. I will look more into the spine issue
> but as of now, I will build the way I have. I have
> never broken a rod other than the one I rolled up
> my window on. Thanks Tom.

I have never found the spine to fall on the straightest axis, and very rarely even 180 degrees to the straightest axis. The latter may happen every so often, the former, never.

..............



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/14/2021 05:00PM by Tom Kirkman.

Building on the spine is "old school", a carry over from the original fiberglass rods, where they were very pronounced. With developments and refinements in materials and roll-up shapes they no longer relevant in building the rod! There is no measurable benefit!

Todd Andrizzi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tom, I was not trying to argue with you. I don't
> know if that's why you didn't respond. That was a
> very sincere question. I love to learn and we
> learn by asking questions. Any body...considering
> the spine is the weakest area of a blank...If the
> straightest axis and the spine happen to be the
> same, where do you hang the guides so the rod is
> not weak? Also...if anyone already knows, how do
> the best rod companies in the world deal with the
> spine theory? Thanks.

Todd, I was out of the office most of the day. That's all.

...........

To find the spine/belly of all segments, start with the tip end. Place the thickest part of the blank against a smooth, flat surface. Flex the tip while gently rolling the blank. It will snap to an orientation where the belly faces straight up. Repeat for the next segment. For the third segment, assemble from the tip, with the third segment attached. Use the same procedure. I'm not sure how this works, but when the blank snaps into place, no matter where the marks are on the first two segments, the top of the third segment will be the belly of that segment. Attach the last segment and repeat. Now, align all the markings in a straight axis. Your blank is now spined.

I learned this technique while building my first Winston BIIIX 7 weight. The rod fishes beautifully. Tere are no sideways oscillations after casting; and the rod dampens quickly, giving me a little better casting distance.

Tight lines and frisky fish

RJF

Thanks for this RJF.
Makes sense to me.

Todd Andrizzi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That's interesting to me. Then what if the
> straightest axis and the spine match up?

Well, then the universe explodes...seriously.

Sorry John...I don't know what you meant.