I read from previous comments that the CTS Crystalcoat does not yellow. Is that true, after some time like a year and more?

I was under this impression, according the reviews and comments I read, so I built a rod and finished in Oct 2019, which CTS white colour blank, Fuji NOCP white thread, and CTS Crystalcoat.

I finished very nicely at first, no yellowing at all. But after a year, I noticed that yellowing has developed. It is not quite quite even, but more like rust marks, which looks unpleasent. (I may try to upload a pic here)

The rod has only been fished 1 time before I noticed the yellowing, so it is not constantly under sunlight.

Any CTS Crystalcoat user have also noticed yellowing of this stuff?

I asked CTS, they insist that they would not expect yellowing of their Crystalcoat and have not seen that. They suggested there might be contamination of the tray of mixing tool.

But I talked to a rod builder he thought that every epoxy would eventually yellow over time, no matter what brand it is.


Thoughts?

Thanks.

Links to pics

[scontent-hkt1-1.xx.fbcdn.net]

[scontent-hkt1-1.xx.fbcdn.net]

Anyone who claims any 2 part epoxy STAYS clear after exposure to sunlight - is full of it. Having said that, the rate of turning will vary based on the intensity of the sun. Season & location play a big factor.... if you are in Florida during the summer it will turn in a week, whereas in Canada Ice fishing it will take significantly longer.
One brand yellows less than others. I have no experience with that finish so all I will say it - people lie, results do not.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/07/2021 09:15AM by Tom Kirkman.

The CTS product is not an epoxy per se. It is an entirely different product. Having said that, however, it's obvious that your wraps have yellowed, in places. And it's the "in places" that lends at least some credence to what the makers claimed about contamination of the application tool or tray. By the same token, it's still a fairly new finish being out only about 3 years or so and thus not everything about how it'll look down the road is yet known.

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I agree with Tom, the yellowing is not uniform throughout. Looks like corrosion stains. I use Crystal Coat but only on light colored wraps and blanks, it cures too slowly for my regular use. However, with the rods I have used it on they still look great. If there is yellowing, it is very slight. I may have been one of the earlier users of Crystal Coat in the US. I first tried it over two years ago, after I picked up a sample at the Expo, and bought some more from Herb. Looking at the hardener in the clear bottle, it may have the slightest of slight hint of yellow. The least amount of yellowing I have ever seen in any epoxy hardener I have ever used. I’m not saying it won’t yellow, but in my experience it is the clearest epoxy I have ever used. I just wish it would cure faster.
Norm

I believe they have a new formula available now that sets up more quickly.

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Alex,
The above replies are very creditable concerning CTS Crystal Coat. While I have found the product to be exceptionally resistant to yellowing, better than any other thread finish, it also levels-out better than others but, as Norman mentioned, has an extended cure time. From Tom’s post, apparently there is a quicker cure rate now available. My 1 year old + bottle of hardener is only very slightly more yellow than when I received it, much less than any other thread finish I have tried. I suspect your yellowing / staining is stemming from other sources than the epoxy. All said and done, it is safe to say that all epoxies will yellow over time, whether in the bottle or on the rod; to what extent….?

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

When I saw the first picture my immediate thought was, did you grind/dress your guide feet? The wraps on the ferrules are interesting. Curious to see if others have had similar results.

I'm in south Florida and fish offshore. Few places are as brutal on finish. White on white will be honey/amber in no time. But what you have is different.

Hard to comment after Tom said it isn't epoxy. Tom, can you elaborate a bit more of what it is?

Way back when blanks were often white we used a lot of yellow NCP to somewhat negate the problem.

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

According to what Steven told me at the Expo a few years ago, it's more of a two-part urethane, but not exactly. It was designed as a coating for various things other than fishing rod guide wraps, but was then modified to make it suitable for that purpose as well.

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I am with Billy on this one, they will all yellow. It is just a matter of how much you can put up with. Looking at the photos the yellowing is in the thicker parts of the coat where you would expect it to be from UV light. It will be more noticeable because there is more material to yellow than the thinner coating on top of the guide foot. Another thing to consider is that chemical companies that produce synthetic polymers like epoxy and urethane resins do so in typically small batches or runs. So variations in the formula and process can make different inconsistent batches that are close enough when tested for acceptable markers or tolerances to be sold or packaged. This could just be a "bad" batch.

Modern Urethanes are not nearly as prone to yellowing as epoxy. There is something else going on here.

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Hi,

Thanks for all the replies.

And no, I did not grind the guides feet.

The first pic looks more normal, where the thicker part of the Crystalcoat around the feel looks more yellow. This is what I would expect, thicker epoxy > more yellow.

But when you look at the second picture, the ferrule wraps. The yellowing looks more like rusting mark, signifiantly uneven. And the yellowing are likely to form at the egde of the wrap, where the coat is the thinnest. It looks not normal.

I keep talking with CTS team, they are very helpful and we are trying to figure out the reason, so I could avoid it in the future build.

As for the probable contamination, I use aluminum foil to make the mixing tray, and use U40 brush cleaner to clean brush. Could these be the problem?

CTS suggests to use diposal brush to prevent any residue from the previous build. I may follow this in the future, just in case.

"The rod has only been fished 1 time before I noticed the yellowing, so it is not constantly under sunlight"




This is very telling and leads me to believe it's an anomaly . CTS Crystal coat has a stellar reputation and the only complaint about it is it's longer cure time NEVER a yellowing problem. When I research products I pay little mind to one persons complaint but if I see numerous complaints about the same issue only then will it raise a red fag .

Your issue is the first I have come across out of I would guess thousands and thousands of happy customers.

I enlarged a section of one of the posted links of the thread wrap:

[www.rodbuilding.org]

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Alex, I do want to ask a single question. Was any one smoking cigarettes or other source of smoke - in the area where the finish was applied and when it was drying.

The reason that I ask the question is that when I was working my way through school - I had my own TV repair shop and later worked in a store which had its TV repair shop.

I repaired TV's from every social strata, and every income strata. I found that TVs that came from upper income and upper social standing - and normally larger homes tended to be very free of any contamination. If anything, the dust on the inside of the TVs was "clean" dust.

However, when I worked on TVs that came from smaller and more cramped homes where one or more folks smoked - I would see colors on the face of the tv screen and even on the inside of the TV that very much resembled the color that I see in the pictures of the thread wraps. Again, with this sort of contamination - the appearance does not change immediately. It only happens over time.

Hence, my reason for the question.

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All that aside, a nice job on the rod!!

Good luck