Hej,

I am currently building a 7.2 MH spiral baitcasting freshwater (mostly) pike rod.
For stock reasons I have a double foot Fuji RW 5.5 follows by KT size 5 runners. I intend to do the locking wrap on the KT that should have been KBs but is it useful to wrap all the guide with the locking wrap?

I am asking because I have a tip heavy rod so If I can save weight for balance I am all in.

Thanks,

Luc

It depends on how you install the guides in the first place.

I use the shortest foot micro guides I can buy and never use locking wraps because of how I install the guides in the first place. So it depends on installation technique. I would say no, but others say yes. It just depends...

There is another thread on this very subject:

[www.rodbuilding.org]

And another thread on spiral wrapping...

[www.rodbuilding.org]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/02/2021 12:15PM by Kent Griffith.

I personally do a locking wrap on all my single foot guides. It is easy to do, looks good, and gives a sense of security against guide pullout. It certainly does not hurt anything. If they add weight it’s in the microgram range. You can always start the wrap a few millimeters closer to the foot, if it is a concern.

Well you say you have a tip heavy rod as it is , what do you think happens when you use slightly more thread on each single foot guide to complete a locking wrap . Lets just say it certainly won't make the rod feel less tip heavy . Since you admit you're brand new to wrapping and building it may be a good idea but I have never used any type of locking wrap and never had a guide even come close to moving let alone pulling out .

Luc siat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hej,
>
> I am currently building a 7.2 MH spiral
> baitcasting freshwater (mostly) pike rod.
> For stock reasons I have a double foot Fuji RW 5.5
> follows by KT size 5 runners. I intend to do the
> locking wrap on the KT that should have been KBs
> but is it useful to wrap all the guide with the
> locking wrap?
>
> I am asking because I have a tip heavy rod so If I
> can save weight for balance I am all in.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Luc


Regarding your build feeling tip heavy , one thing you can do is pay close attention to a 'Static test' the two line method to really see where your running guides are needed instead of just assuming 'I need this many' or ' The software said I should use this many' running guides. Fuji's recommendations don't take into account a blanks characteristic's like how stiff it is , how soft it is etc... . If a static test shows you don't need a ton of running guides then eliminate them and only use as many as absolutely needed . Even though runners are small add thread and epoxy and that weight adds up making the rod feel more tip heavy than it needs to be.

I also think using a KW5.5 as the stripper is too small. You will get line slap. Increase the size to a KW10 or RV6, to get the line higher off the blank.
Norm

Luc, what i,m trying to figure is how can you have a tip heavy rod with such small guides on a med. heavy rod..#5 runners are not heavy..

A locking wrap on all the single foot guides to the tip is not going to add any weight or at least not enough to notice. The tip section guides is where you may need it the most.

It is rare that fishing itself will ever pull out or shift a guide. It's pulling rods from rod lockers and boxes that tend to do that. Rich Forhan developed his unique locking wrap to stop that from happening, and it does. As far as adding weight - give it a hard look. You'd be hard pressed to realize any practical weight difference between using it or not. It's not bulkly, it's not long, it doesn't add enough additional thread to make any practical weight difference. There are no practical disadvantages to use it, but there may be some practical disadvantages in not using it.



..........

One Forhan locking wrap should increase the shear strength of a guide wrap by 1X the strength of a single strand of the thread used to make the wrap - unless other factors are involved?

The locking wrap is insurance! Guides under normal conditions should never "pull out." It's the unplanned incident that can cause pullouts. As mentioned above by Tom, lockers boxes, even putting them in or removing from tubes.

I have had to repair fly rods where guides were pulled out when the fisherman was going through heavy brush.

The Forhan wrap isn't intended to increase shear strength of the thread wrap. It's there to prevent a single foot guide from being pulled out from under the wrap on the tip-most side. And it does.

........

It's easy to have a tip heavy rod using small guides. Some blanks are more tip heavy than others. I have a rod built on an Immortal IMMC72MH blank that I have a split rear grip on it using EVA foam as the grip material. It was tip heavy before I even started putting guides on it.

Anyhow, as far as locking wraps go. I used them on 2 rods that I've built, but that's it. As others have said it is easy to do, and the amount of weight it adds will never be felt. You're talking 3 wraps of thread on every guide you put it on. As far as the added weight of the finish to cover the wrap goes. What extra finish? And even if there is a little more finish, it isn't much. IMO it is overkill to worry about such a minuscule amount of weight.

Although I haven't had any runners pull out in all my years when I think about it I'm actually more comfortable having a small runner break free when being jerked & twisted instead of staying in place and having the foot possibly dig into the blank from all that force. I have two VERY expensive surf blanks where the upper part of the rod is extremely thin walled with a modulus per square inch rating of 57 . Having a guide refusing to break free scares me to death .

I do see and agree what people are saying about the unexpected accident , that is always a possibility it's nearly impossible to avoid one of those mishaps if you're a fisherman and one of the main reasons why I always transport my rods in flannel rod socks and hard case tubes.

When you add one strand of thread to the epoxy which holds the guide in place you have added the strength of one strand of thread to prevent the guide foot from moving.

Actually Phil, the Forhan lock is more than one thread , it is two around the guide and more behind it.

Kent Griffith Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It depends on how you install the guides in the
> first place.
>
> I use the shortest foot micro guides I can buy and
> never use locking wraps because of how I install
> the guides in the first place. So it depends on
> installation technique. I would say no, but others
> say yes. It just depends...
>
> There is another thread on this very subject:
>
> [www.rodbuilding.org]
>
> And another thread on spiral wrapping...
>
> [www.rodbuilding.org]


Oh I did not see that I am so sorry. I was on the library Forhan wrap article and then I looked for it but with very specific words too much apparently. Sorry for the double post.

Thanks for the spiral wrap article!

chris c nash Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Luc siat Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Hej,
> >
> > I am currently building a 7.2 MH spiral
> > baitcasting freshwater (mostly) pike rod.
> > For stock reasons I have a double foot Fuji RW
> 5.5
> > follows by KT size 5 runners. I intend to do
> the
> > locking wrap on the KT that should have been
> KBs
> > but is it useful to wrap all the guide with the
> > locking wrap?
> >
> > I am asking because I have a tip heavy rod so If
> I
> > can save weight for balance I am all in.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Luc
>
>
> Regarding your build feeling tip heavy , one
> thing you can do is pay close attention to a
> 'Static test' the two line method to really see
> where your running guides are needed instead of
> just assuming 'I need this many' or ' The
> software said I should use this many' running
> guides. Fuji's recommendations don't take into
> account a blanks characteristic's like how stiff
> it is , how soft it is etc... . If a static test
> shows you don't need a ton of running guides then
> eliminate them and only use as many as absolutely
> needed . Even though runners are small add thread
> and epoxy and that weight adds up making the rod
> feel more tip heavy than it needs to be.

Thank you Chris!
That is one of the reason I have spent several hours on my static test, I managed to back all of them by 2cm while keeping the line not more than 6.5mm away from the blank (no sharp angle)

Norman Miller Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I also think using a KW5.5 as the stripper is too
> small. You will get line slap. Increase the size
> to a KW10 or RV6, to get the line higher off the
> blank.
> Norm

Sorry It is an RW 10 I don't know why I wrote 5.5.

ben belote Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Luc, what i,m trying to figure is how can you have
> a tip heavy rod with such small guides on a med.
> heavy rod..#5 runners are not heavy..


I am trying too, I don't know how it is tip heavy. I have a split reel seat and a 9" split grip. I currently need to add 3oz to have it balance in my hand.