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Guide layout recommendations
Posted by: Michael Tarr (---)
Date: February 20, 2021 02:36PM

Hey guys, I’m going to put together a crankbait casting rod (Phenix X11) and was wanting some recommendations on guides. For example, should I use 2 or 3 double foot guides or is that overkill? I’ve seen this on factory built comparable rods. The Fuji casting rod kit only has one double foot guide, would this be ok? How does one know what to use or is it more or less personal preference? As always y’all’s expertise and collective wisdom is appreciate!

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Re: Guide layout recommendations
Posted by: Michael Tarr (---)
Date: February 20, 2021 02:52PM

7'0" | 10-25 lb. | 1/2 - 3 oz. | Moderate Action | 1 Piece | 5.5 Tip | 0.561 Butt These are the spec...

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Re: Guide layout recommendations
Posted by: Michael Sutheimer (---.wi.res.rr.com)
Date: February 20, 2021 04:25PM

I cannot speak to the particular guides in for your build. However I have built on a few Phenix blanks. In my research there seemed to be a fair number of people that feel Phenix blanks are bit fragile. When laying out your guides for static load testing good idea to go an extra guide or two is the general consensus, if you you even slightly don't like the looks of things. Lot of people claimed what they passed off as close enough was not.

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Re: Guide layout recommendations
Posted by: John DeMartini (---.inf6.spectrum.com)
Date: February 20, 2021 04:39PM

What is the distance from the center of the reel to the tip of the blank..

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Re: Guide layout recommendations
Posted by: David Baylor (---.res6.spectrum.com)
Date: February 20, 2021 04:48PM

You'll likely get a lot of responses that using only one double foot butt guide is absolutely fine, and I am certainly not going to say that it isn't. What I will say is that I personally prefer using 3 double foot guides, for 2 reasons. Reason 1 is, it just looks right to me. I'm used to seeing it on factory rods, so I go that same route. I am well aware that it will result in a heavier over all guide train, and I'm ok with that because the extra guide weight is in the lower to middle section of the blank, and doesn't have the same affect performance wise, that weight further down the blank does. The second reason I use the 3 double foot guides is that it carries the line height a little further down the blank, which based on the size guides I use, means I can use at least 1 less guide than I would if I were to use shorter guides right after butt guide.

I will say this about casting rod guide kit you mentioned. My first foray into working on rods was replacing the guides on a couple of my factory rods, and I used Fuji guide kits because well, I just didn't know any better. The rods I put the guide kits on worked well, but as I have learned more about rod building, I found that the kits gave pretty much factory rod performance. Nothing wrong with that, but the nice thing about building your own rods is that you can build better than factory rod performance. Therefore, personally I would build your own guide train versus going with a guide kit. First off, once you do static load testing to place your running guides, you'll probably find that you'll want 1 or 2 more running guides than are supplied in the kit. Secondly, the guide kits I used had running guides that were bigger than what I use now. Weight in the running portion of the blank affects the blanks performance more than weight anywhere else on the blank.

Of course if you have the kit already, I wouldn't throw it out. But don't be afraid to modify it. A well sized and laid out guide train makes a world of difference in rod performance.

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Re: Guide layout recommendations
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: February 20, 2021 05:43PM

I think David has it right. One strategy to salvage the kit is to add a couple double foot guides, a size or two smaller than the first one in the kit, or the same size as the runners. or whatever the single foot guides are. There is no advantage in having a lot of different sizes, or a progressive downsizing as you go out the rod. That's a pretty heavy duty rod, so adding two double foot guides is not overkill.

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Re: Guide layout recommendations
Posted by: Michael Tarr (---)
Date: February 20, 2021 05:45PM

Thanks for the responses, I plan to use a Shimano Curado K it’s a 200 size low profile casting reel. The reel will be around 12” from the butt so roughly 6’ from it tip. I haven’t purchased the Phenix blank yet but after looking at other brands the Phenix is calling me in. If there are better options for throwing 1/2oz Squarebill crankbaits, I’m all ears.

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Re: Guide layout recommendations
Posted by: John DeMartini (---)
Date: February 20, 2021 06:18PM

For guide spacing I would try 8 or 9 guides (your choice of size and style) plus a Fuji SIC tip (my choice).

For 8 guides, 6 single foot and 2 double foot.

For 9 guides, 6 single foot and 3 double foot.

Guide ring size and style are a matter of personal choice. I prefer 10s, 8s and 6s, maybe a 12 for the butt guide, again personal choice.

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Re: Guide layout recommendations
Posted by: Lynn Behler (---.44.66.72.res-cmts.leh.ptd.net)
Date: February 20, 2021 07:25PM

I like 2 or 3 double foots as well. I start with a KW-10. (same height as RV-6)

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Re: Guide layout recommendations
Posted by: David Baylor (---.res6.spectrum.com)
Date: February 20, 2021 11:31PM

Like Lynn, I use a KW-10 as the butt guide. As he said, it''s the same height as the RV-6 which is a guide Fuji developed for casting rods which I assume, is based on the height of most low profile casting reel's line guide. I have Curado K 200s on my last two casting rod builds an the KW- 10 works perfectly. I believe I have them 21 1/2" from the face of the reel, but I'd have to get the rod and measure it to be sure.

Oh and I looked at the Fuji casting guide kits that Mud Hole has available. The runners are #5s which is what I put on the last two casting rod builds I referenced. They'll work fine and dandy. I'd just order at least the KW-10 and a couple more #5s for the running guides. They aren't expensive, and in my book it's always better to have and not need, than to need and not have.

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Re: Guide layout recommendations
Posted by: Lance Schreckenbach (---.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net)
Date: February 21, 2021 01:08AM

Do whatever you think is best or looks good to you. I would do a Fuji RV 6 and then KB 5s (6) and the rest KT 5s or 4.5s (3) and 5 tip top.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/23/2021 12:09PM by Lance Schreckenbach.

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Re: Guide layout recommendations
Posted by: Michael Tarr (---)
Date: February 21, 2021 10:05AM

Thanks guys! These recommendations help tremendously. I always second guess what I’m building (when it comes to rods) and hearing other experiences helps me put together a better plan.

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Re: Guide layout recommendations
Posted by: ben belote (---.zoominternet.net)
Date: February 21, 2021 10:31AM

I built and (ab)used heavily three SC2 flipping telescopic rods for many,many years..all with single foot guides, no double footers but i used the forhan locking wrap which in my mind makes a single footer equal to a double footer..i would go all single footers with a forhan locking wrap..if your making a crankbait rod, it won,t get near the workout of a flipping rod..

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Re: Guide layout recommendations
Posted by: ben belote (---.zoominternet.net)
Date: February 21, 2021 10:43AM

ben belote Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I built and (ab)used heavily three SC2 flipping
> telescopic rods for many,many years..all with
> single foot guides, no double footers but i used
> the forhan locking wrap which in my mind makes a
> single footer equal to a double footer..i would go
> all single footers with a forhan locking wrap..if
> your making a crankbait rod, it won,t get near the
> workout of a flipping rod..

Just to add that i used nine #6BLAG guides with equal spacing..i like to keep things simple..lol.

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Re: Guide layout recommendations
Posted by: Lynn Behler (---.44.66.72.res-cmts.leh.ptd.net)
Date: February 22, 2021 07:55PM

Ben, that must be a very good lock wrap! lol

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Re: Guide layout recommendations
Posted by: ben belote (---.zoominternet.net)
Date: February 22, 2021 09:14PM

Lynn, there is a great aarticle by Rich Forhan in the library that says it much better than i can..i have not used a double footed guide since..

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Re: Guide layout recommendations
Posted by: ben belote (---.zoominternet.net)
Date: February 23, 2021 06:04AM

ben belote Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lynn, there is a great aarticle by Rich Forhan in
> the library that says it much better than i can..i
> have not used a double footed guide since..

NOTE:
A forhan locking wrap is made up of three wraps back to back..you can easily use one or two wraps for micro guides if you wish..

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Re: Guide layout recommendations
Posted by: Lynn Behler (---.44.66.72.res-cmts.leh.ptd.net)
Date: February 26, 2021 07:05PM

However wrapped, double ft. are stronger.

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