I
nternet gathering place for custom rod builders
  • Custom Rod Builders - This message board is provided for your use by the sponsors listed on the left side of the page. Feel free to post any question, answers or topics related in any way to custom building. When purchasing products please remember those who sponsor this board.

  • Manufacturers and Vendors - Only board sponsors are permitted and encouraged to promote and advertise products on the board. You may become a sponsor for a nominal fee. It is the sponsor fees that pay for this message board.

  • Rules - Rod building is a decent and rewarding craft. Those who participate in it are assumed to be civilized individuals who are kind and considerate in their dealings with others. Please respond to others in the same fashion in which you would like to be responded to. Registration IS NOW required in order to post. You must include your actual First and Last name and a correct email address when registering or posting. Posts which are inflammatory, insulting, or that fail to include a proper name and email address will be removed and the persons responsible will be barred from further participation.

    Registration is now required in order to post. You must include your actual First and Last name and a correct email address when registering or posting.
SPONSORS

ICRBE 2021
EXPO ON FACEBOOK
CCS Database
Int. Custom Rod Symbol
Common Cents Info
American Tackle
Anglers Rsrc - Fuji
BatsonRainshadowALPS
BRC Rods
Banana River Rods
Cork Specialties LLC
CRB
CTS New Zealand
Custom Fly Grips LLC
Decal Connection
Flex Coat Co.
Get Bit Outdoors
Hitena USA
HYDRA
Janns Netcraft
Mickels Custom Rods
Mudhole Custom Tackle
MHX Rod Blanks
North Fork Composites
ProProducts
REC Components
ReelSeatBlanks.com
Renzetti Inc.
Rod Builders Warehouse
RodHouse France
RodMaker Magazine
RodMaker Blog
Schneiders Rod Shop
SeaGuide Corp.
Struble Mfg.
Tackleworks
The Rod Room
Trondak U-40
Utmost Enterprises
ZipCast

Pages: 12Next
Current Page: 1 of 2
color preserver
Posted by: John Sansevera (---.hsd1.ny.comcast.net)
Date: February 20, 2021 05:20AM

Finally finished up all my stock of Gudebrod color preserver so I went with FlexCoat water based CP. Don't really care for it, first off it looks like elmers glue and it leaves the threads dull. They lose their brilliant color and end up being a dull or muted color from original. Is this common with the water based CP's or is there another brand ( preferably) a non water based product somewhere to be had.

Fishing is not a matter of life or death, it's much more important than that

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: color preserver
Posted by: ben belote (---.zoominternet.net)
Date: February 20, 2021 07:41AM

once you apply the finish the brilliant coors come back..

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: color preserver
Posted by: Billy Vivona (---.nycmny.fios.verizon.net)
Date: February 20, 2021 08:07AM

No, the brilliant colors do not come back with epoxy. If you were using Gudebrod 811S, nothing I've found or tested is going to leave the threads that vibrant. U40 and FC CP are the worst when it comes to color retention and vibrancy. Chromaseal is the best from what I've tested, but it's still not as good as the 811S. I still have a personal lifetime supply of 811, I bought the remaining stock from Dick French in 2009 and use it sparingly, having to thin it every year because it thickens up over time.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: color preserver
Posted by: ben belote (---.zoominternet.net)
Date: February 20, 2021 08:24AM

yea, chromaseal is the best but i don,t like the epoxy creep i get with it on thread wraps..

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: color preserver
Posted by: Donald La Mar (---)
Date: February 20, 2021 09:46AM

For silk I'm having good results using Al's Color Rite. Color is dull until the epoxy or spar is applied then it pops back.

For nylon Chromaseal is sort of OK but nothing I've tried yet is great.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: color preserver
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: February 20, 2021 09:53AM

Ben, what is "epoxy creep?" thanks

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: color preserver
Posted by: ben belote (---.zoominternet.net)
Date: February 20, 2021 11:09AM

epoxy creep to me occurs right after i apply epoxy to a wrap and begin rotating by hand and the epoxy on the edge of the wrap slowly moves to the center forming a very pronounced football..i have only had it occur when i used chromaseal CP..i have no idea why and at least one other person has mentioned it on this site...

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: color preserver
Posted by: Michael Sutheimer (---.wi.res.rr.com)
Date: February 20, 2021 04:30PM

I encountered the same creep with chromoseal. Drove me nuts chasing the problem. Went to flexcoat problem solved.

I have gotten better color with multiple coats of CP. I soak the wraps. Wick off all the excess with a coffee filter. Do this two or three times depending on the size of the wrap, most cases I do twice.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: color preserver
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: February 20, 2021 05:50PM

I use Michael's method with Flex Coat. One thing to keep in mind is that Billy does fabulous weaves, and for weaves like his, color fidelity is much more important than it is for most of us. I can get by with a little color shift, or dulling with Flex Coat; (and consider it minor if any) , maybe he cannot and for him Chromaseal is the closest to the holy grail. I've tried Chromaseal and didn't have problems, but didn't think it superior to Flex Coat. Use what works for you.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: color preserver
Posted by: Norman Miller (---)
Date: February 20, 2021 05:56PM

Footballs are not caused by the type of color preserver used but rather by using too much epoxy. Footballs can happened even when no color preserver is used with both NoCp and regular wrapping thread. Centrifugal forces generated during spinning causes the excess epoxy to pile up in the center of the wrap causing a football. Really noticeable on the smaller tip guides. It’s cured by using less epoxy and slowing down the rotation speed. After applying epoxy, I stop the rotation for a few minutes and remove any sags that may occur. I like to use slow RPM drying motors of 4 to 9 rpms, even though I apply the epoxy at much higher rpms.
Norm

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: color preserver
Posted by: John Sansevera (---.hsd1.ny.comcast.net)
Date: February 20, 2021 07:18PM

I will agree with Norman on the RPM speeds. My first rod dryer was almost twice what i use now as far as rpm's . Couldn't understand why I was getting eggs, what you call footballs on almost all my guides. Switched to a much slower drying motor and lessened up the amount of flexcoat epoxy, problem solved.

Fishing is not a matter of life or death, it's much more important than that

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: color preserver
Posted by: John Sansevera (---.hsd1.ny.comcast.net)
Date: February 20, 2021 07:23PM

As far as a little dulling in the vibrance of the thread color is not acceptable . Just because I'm not doing weaves I don't want to settle for dulled out colors. I choose the thread colors to match the components on a build. Reel seat's , colored winding checks and matching butt caps. Once it's all wrapped everything matches beautifully, now cp the thread's and presto magic, looks like the wrong thread colors were picked, turns a grade A job into a B job at best. If anyone has any of the older Gudebrod cp they would like to sell me please send me a message. Thanks John

Fishing is not a matter of life or death, it's much more important than that

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: color preserver
Posted by: Lynn Behler (---.44.66.72.res-cmts.leh.ptd.net)
Date: February 20, 2021 08:19PM

If 811S was created by man, why cannot man recreate it?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: color preserver
Posted by: Billy Vivona (---.nycmny.fios.verizon.net)
Date: February 20, 2021 09:28PM

811 was not perfect either - not 1 single CP is, they all have pros and cons, and each builder has to decide what is acceptable to them. 811 tended to have crystals which were visible on black thread, the more you applied the worse it was. And if you heat the epoxy up you ran the risk of burning the CP and those crystals would come from out of nowhere. HAving said that, knowing is half the battle, and understanding the cause of probems allows you to adjust your tehniques so that you can eliminate problems.

John, I don't know anyone that has any more left. I bought 150 ounces and sold most of it, then a few uears later I was contactign my friends and asking them if I could buy what I Sold them back. IF you've been around for a long time, 811S was the same exact product as Brilliance 2, but it was thinned more.

About 10 years ago Bill Cason made 2 CP's - one water based and one solvent. I didn't like either of them, but quit a few others did. He disappeared off the face of the Earth a couple of years after the product came out. I've tinkered adound with making CP, but having enough 811S as I do I didn't see the point in manufacturing something.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: color preserver
Posted by: Michael Sutheimer (---.wi.res.rr.com)
Date: February 20, 2021 10:02PM

Norman Miller Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Footballs are not caused by the type of color
> preserver used but rather by using too much epoxy.
> Footballs can happened even when no color
> preserver is used with both NoCp and regular
> wrapping thread. Centrifugal forces generated
> during spinning causes the excess epoxy to pile up
> in the center of the wrap causing a football.
> Really noticeable on the smaller tip guides.
> It’s cured by using less epoxy and slowing down
> the rotation speed. After applying epoxy, I stop
> the rotation for a few minutes and remove any sags
> that may occur. I like to use slow RPM drying
> motors of 4 to 9 rpms, even though I apply the
> epoxy at much higher rpms.
> Norm


I agree with all this. However I changed nothing other than the CP and problem was gone.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: color preserver
Posted by: chris c nash (---.atmc.net)
Date: February 20, 2021 10:46PM

Was just reading a thread from this website from the past , I found it quite interesting . I should say I have used Flexcoat CP on a few rods when I wrapped with non CP Nylon thread and after applying it and letting it dry I knew something was wrong . Just had a dull look to it . I decided to rewrap a few guides and try again and this time the threads had great brilliance and superb color retention . I compared the thread color that I used Flexcoat CP on to thread right off the spool and could not tell any difference once the CP dried.


[www.rodbuilding.org]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/20/2021 10:56PM by chris c nash.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: color preserver
Posted by: Lance Schreckenbach (---.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net)
Date: February 21, 2021 01:12AM

It is what is and you may have to just live with it. I use the flex coat and know what to expect. Most of the time it is just fine.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: color preserver
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: February 21, 2021 11:00AM

Some would find it surprising to learn that about half of the CP's out there are all the same product, repackaged, each under a different brand name.

.........

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: color preserver
Posted by: John Sansevera (---.hsd1.ny.comcast.net)
Date: February 21, 2021 03:27PM

Tom that I would believe with the water based cp's, but just like polyurethane the new water based poly's all dry with a cloudy finish. But not the oil based ones. Same goes for cp's, i'll take the old Gudebrod color preserver over the new water based ones any day of the week.

Fishing is not a matter of life or death, it's much more important than that

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: color preserver
Posted by: ben belote (---.zoominternet.net)
Date: February 21, 2021 06:27PM

Wasn,t Gudebrrod CP just nitrocellulose lacquer which can still be puchased? you may have to thin it..

Options: ReplyQuote
Pages: 12Next
Current Page: 1 of 2


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
Webmaster