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What am I doing wrong: Rod Tips
Posted by: Dave Schappell (---.cmdnnj.fios.verizon.net)
Date: February 15, 2021 12:05AM

I'm slowing improving my rod building skills...I'm not into all that fancy type wraps, just don't seem to have the patience to work on them, but I get a lot of enjoyment out of building basic, functional rods and then I usually give them as a gift. My younger brother loves it because every once in a while, I'll experiment with something and give him the prototype.

Ok, here's my problem, while most of my rod guides are straight when I put them on, the one thing that seems to give me fits is the rod tip. I never seem to get good adhesion. Once the glue cools and I remove the excess, more often then not, the rod tip is loose. So, I have a couple of questions about the best way to mount the rod tip.

First, how tight should it be without the glue? Should it be snug, (able to easily rotate into position) or should be be much looser, almost to the point you can feel it pivot.

The second question, my gluing procedure is:

1. Fit the rod tip...
2. Heat the glue stick to the point where it starts to drip
3. Apply the glue to the rod tip
4. Warm the rod tip a bit and install, checking alignment.
5. Wait for the glue to start to harden and remove the excess.

Any thoughts?

Thanks and have a wonderful day!

Dave

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Re: What am I doing wrong: Rod Tips
Posted by: Lance Schreckenbach (---.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net)
Date: February 15, 2021 01:34AM

#1 Cut small slithers and insert them into the tip top barrel and heat up the barrel till the glue bubbles out the top and fix it to the blank tip. #2 Put tip top glue stick in hot glue gun and make lines of glue. Let harden and cut little sections. Place small section in tip top barrel and heat up, when it boils out the barrel fix it to the blank tip. It will be snug and won't come off. Works every time. You will most likely get more complicated ways to do it, but this really works. Use indirect heat on the tip top. I always put my rod on the wrapping stand with the guides on on bottom center and put the tip top on in the manner above. The weight of the ring will fall to center bottom like the rest of the guides.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/2021 01:49AM by Lance Schreckenbach.

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Re: What am I doing wrong: Rod Tips
Posted by: Michael Sutheimer (---.wi.res.rr.com)
Date: February 15, 2021 03:19AM

I heat up my stick of glue. Just the tip with a lighter. I then wet my thumb and index finger. Grab the very edge of stick and pull. The water on your fingers keeps you from getting burned. As you pull you get a string of glue that sets back up almost instantly. That string of glue is easy to pack into the tube of the tip. I then proceed the same as Lance.

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Re: What am I doing wrong: Rod Tips
Posted by: Harry Kelly (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: February 15, 2021 08:34AM

scuff the rod tip blank under the barrel so the glue has something to bite on .......(remove the gloss)

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Re: What am I doing wrong: Rod Tips
Posted by: John DeMartini (---.dhcp.bhn.net)
Date: February 15, 2021 08:52AM

The tip should have a snug fit, both the blank and the tip must be clean.

I use (30 minute) two part epoxy, it gives me plenty of time to align the tip and makes a permanent bond. Also it takes little effort to mix and apply.

Yes, it is harder to remove if there is a problem but I can deal with that future event if it ever occurs.

Have fun
,

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Re: What am I doing wrong: Rod Tips
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: February 15, 2021 09:24AM

Heat the glue stick and when soft, push the tiptop tube into the glue and withdraw. This packs the tube with glue. Then momentarily heat the tiptop tube to re-soften the glue and slide onto the blank tip.

................

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Re: What am I doing wrong: Rod Tips
Posted by: Dennis Danku (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: February 15, 2021 09:34AM

Dave, If you have or can find an old crank type pencil sharpener, insert the glue stick into the sharpener and crank away until there's nothing to hold on to. Empty the shavings into a small container for future use. Now you have granulated hot melt glue that can be applied to any size tip/top, heated and applied to the rod.
By the way, all the guys above gave you good advise

Dennis J. Danku
(Sayreville,NJ)

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Re: What am I doing wrong: Rod Tips
Posted by: Todd Andrizzi (---.slkc.qwest.net)
Date: February 15, 2021 09:52AM

Hi Dave, I 100% agree with Lance. I also cut small slithers of tip top glue. I have said on here many times...there is a difference between the white stick of glue and the yellow tip top stick. Use the yellow. Load the tube with the slithers, heat the tube with a lighter...not too close...just close enough to get the glue to settle into the tube. When the glue starts to bubble, insert your tip top into position and hold it for a minute. The glue drys fast. I just hold it so the glue don't push the tip off some. One thing I do also is when fitting the tip top I like it not to be sloppy. As you said snug but easily turned with no glue. You obviously need a layer of glue between the tube and your blank. I put the tube on the blank, make sure it is all on the way onto the blank and then put a small marker dot on the blank to show me where the total fit is. If you want, when fitting the top, put a dot on the tube and align it with the dot on the blank to show you exactly how far down the blank the tube needs to be and also what position your tip top needs to be. I don't know if this is the right way to do it but I put my tip top on first and then line my guides to the tip.Hope that makes some sense.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/2021 11:21PM by Todd Andrizzi.

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Re: What am I doing wrong: Rod Tips
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: February 15, 2021 10:51AM

Adding to what Lance and Todd do, I cut the strips/thin shavings onto the table, then with a fly tying bodkin, stab the shavings. They will be picked up with the bodkin and then the point of the bodkin, with the shaving on it, can be inserted into the tube. The shaving will come off inside. Do that with 5 or 6 shavings, then heat the tube (try to apply the heat only to the tube, using a butane lighter flame edge) and stick it onto the blank.

Not much heat is needed , and I usually can hold the tip top by the ring with my fingers and heat the tube well enough to melt the cement and apply the tiptop. I use tiptop hot melt, not hardware store stuff.

I do not use epoxy as I don't want to deal with possible damage to the blank tip when having to remove a tiptop.

If you're worried about the tiptop moving due to heat inside a closed car or hot climate run your wrap epoxy over onto the tube of the tiptop when you are finishing your wraps. It will give a little strength that is not heat sensitive without adding enough to cause a removal problem.

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Re: What am I doing wrong: Rod Tips
Posted by: Joe Vanfossen (---.net.kent.edu)
Date: February 15, 2021 12:17PM

I start off by making sure that I have the rod blank oriented with the guides down. Then I'll tie a little loop in some fishing line and slide on a 1/16-1/8 bullet weight and attach it to the tip top. Attach the loop to the tip top by sliding the loop part way through the tip top so the loop sticks out on one side of the ring and the weight is on the other side of the ring. Drop the weight through the exposed loop and pull snug. The weight acts like a plumb bob to promote proper alignment.

I use 5 minute epoxy. It gives enough time to do what I need. After mixing, I'll use my thread pick to pick some epoxy up and put it into the tube and fill a good bit of the tube. When you slide the tube onto the blank, spin the tip top once just to be sure epoxy is coated all the way around the blank. If you had enough epoxy in the tube, it should squeeze out of either end of the tip top depending on the design of the tip top. Double check that the weight provided enough force to align the tip top, clean up the excess epoxy and walk away. In 20 minutes, the epoxy should be pretty well cured.

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Re: What am I doing wrong: Rod Tips
Posted by: Ron Schneider (---.mid.dyn.suddenlink.net)
Date: February 15, 2021 04:50PM

Some suggestions.
Use a candle in a holder to allow both hands to work.
Make sure the heat glue is the "high melt" amber stick if Flex Coat.
If you want to be extra secure, use the 5 minute epoxy, with care it can be removed with judicious heat.
And never put heat to the blank, be especially careful of heat on Fiberglass blanks.
Hope this helps.

Best wishes,
Ron Schneider
Schneider's Rod Shop
Mountain Home, Arkansas
[www.schneidersrods.com]
schndrod@suddenlink.net
870-424-3381

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Re: What am I doing wrong: Rod Tips
Posted by: roger wilson (---)
Date: February 15, 2021 05:23PM

Dave,
Here is a variation that works very well for me.

I take a 1/16th diameter piece of piano wire and cut it to be about 8 inches long. Then, using my belt sander, I sharpen it to a long sharp point. Essentially, I will be using this sharp metal stick to insert glue on the inside of the tip top.

I use my alcohol burner and heat the end of the glue stick as well as the sharpened metal stick. Then, I pierce the sharpened stick into the glue stick to obtain a bit of glue with which to work.

Then, I heat the glue on the stick, and heat the tip top and insert the glue coated stick into the heated tip top and thus pack the inside of the tip top with glue.

Then, I will reheat the glue on the stick and with the rod blank rotating wipe on a layer of hot glue onto the end of the rod blank.

Finally, I heat the tip top with its load of glue and heat the glue on the end of the rod blank and quickly put the tip top in place and align it.

Then, using a cleaned up craft or popsicle stick use it to wipe excess glue off of the heated tip top and do a final alignment.

---
Using this method to be sure that I have a well packed tip top with glue and glue on the rod blank that are then assembled - I have never had a tip top fail.

Note:
Use what ever heat source that you desire, but please do not use a heat source with a visible flame. A visible flame means carbon and carbon means soot, and soot means a contaminated blank and or tip top. i.e. the yellow smoking heat will deposit soot on the tip top and rod blank that may be difficult to remove.

But, an alcohol flame or a butane lighter flame are both colorless and leave no soot behind.

Best wishes.

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Re: What am I doing wrong: Rod Tips
Posted by: Mark Talmo (---)
Date: February 15, 2021 05:56PM

Dave,
Better to have the tube of the tip full of hot-melt glue and none on the blank than the inverse!

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!!

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Re: What am I doing wrong: Rod Tips
Posted by: Phil Erickson (---.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
Date: February 15, 2021 08:30PM

Not mentioned yet, is the use of CA (super glue) it is even easier to use! And yes, it can be removed with heat very much as is epoxy or hot melt. I have been using it on the fly rods I build for years. That's 100's of rods.

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Re: What am I doing wrong: Rod Tips
Posted by: Joseph Willsen (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: February 16, 2021 11:26AM

After I had 2 roller tops come loose during a tuna trip I stopped using hot melt glue and went to 5 min epoxy. I will never go back.
I put the rod in the stands, guides down and mix up the epoxy. I like to have a little room between the rod tip and the tube...just a little....apply epoxy to the rod tip and pack the tube.....push the tip on....spin it once....back it off a bit to get all the air out and push it back on....wipe off excess and align. Never had a problem.

If I need to remove/replace a tip installed this way I take a length of trolling wire and put it through the ring and tie it off to something....apply steady pressure while heating with a heat gun. The tip will come off as soon as the glue gets soft.....keeping you from heating the blank too much.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/2021 11:29AM by Joseph Willsen.

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Re: What am I doing wrong: Rod Tips
Posted by: Todd Andrizzi (---.slkc.qwest.net)
Date: February 16, 2021 04:42PM

The yellow stuff.....!!!!! use the yellow stuffffff!!!!! I put that [email protected]&t on everything! Use the yellow tip top glue stick.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/2021 09:46PM by Todd Andrizzi.

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Re: What am I doing wrong: Rod Tips
Posted by: Dave Schappell (---.cmdnnj.fios.verizon.net)
Date: February 18, 2021 07:56PM

Thanks guys, I really appreciate all the help. You've given me a ton of suggestions to try, so I'll go through them, one by one, until I find one that works for me.

Have a wonderful day and thanks again!

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